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When a Civilization Goes Mad
Pajamas Media ^ | August 16, 2011 | David Solway

Posted on 08/16/2011 11:32:17 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: arrogantsob

The only civilization that is still around after some 3000 years are the Jews. If Jews could revive their language and country after so long being without it I think it is possible that the West could reform itself.

I am optimistic that we’ll get through this this time of darkness and decline but the West is going to have to go through some really bad times in order to do so because the only time we seem to learn is through lessons taught combined with pain.

Just because we live in a time where we seem to be on the edge of civilizational collapse doesn’t mean we should give up. Quite to the contrary. We should be digging in our heels and doing what is needed to buck the trend.


21 posted on 08/16/2011 12:49:58 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Joe 6-pack

My late wife had that kind of beauty especially her eyes and hair. I adored her for many reasons. You could not take a bad picture of her. I, on the other hand, either looked demented or like a gargoyle in most pictures.


22 posted on 08/16/2011 12:50:51 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Quigley does not consider the Jews a civilization but a religious subdivision of the Canaanite civilization which was destroyed by the Romans in the first century BC. And the Jews were expelled from their homeland a short time (by historical standards) later. Now the Jews are a religious subdivision of Western Civilization.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying we should give up but we must recognize the issues which are facing us or there is no hope we can deal with them.


23 posted on 08/16/2011 1:00:03 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: Rich21IE

I remember a discussion we had in school which posed the question of civilization’s demise and homo sapiens’ retrogression; i.e. going back to a primitive existence of killing animals for food, sleeping under the stars, bathing in rivers.

We concluded that any form of survival and renewal was not regression. However, we did note that becoming dependent on others for necessities (other peoples labor) was equal to descending to a feral state.


24 posted on 08/16/2011 1:01:47 PM PDT by sodpoodle (Despair: Man's surrender. Laughter: God's redemption.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The Nike Riots are indeed a fascinating story with many parallels to today's sports and spectacle media. I must, however, gently point out that there are many historical errors in your capsule description.

There were only Blues and Greens. Theodora did indeed show backbone in a stirring speech when Justinian was on the verge of fleeing. Both Blues and Greens were slaughtered in the Hippodrome, in an assault of the Veringian (sp?) Guard - the first appearance of the Vikings in history. Interestingly, the assault was planned and led by a eunuch, Narcissus (sp?), who later had some success campaigning in Italy.

Finally, the Roman Empire (sometimes called Byzantium, though they and their enemies (Muslims) always called it Rome) endured for over 900 more years (fall of Constantinople to the Turks was on May 29, 1453, and Nike Riots were in 532 AD).

May America last so long!

25 posted on 08/16/2011 1:02:06 PM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: arrogantsob; Joe 6-pack
I'll grant you that Burne-Jones ("The Golden Stair") Hunt ("The Lady of Shalott") and Millais ("Ophelia") sometimes depicted beautiful women - not always - but when they do, the ladies are stunning.

But Rossetti couldn't draw (sorry - he just couldn't - look at the abortive "Found" or his paintings of his wife, who made a lovely Ophelia for Millais) and most of his women look downright weird. The prettiest ones (and not that pretty) were just Fanny Cornforth drawn over and over and over again.

26 posted on 08/16/2011 1:02:29 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Rich21IE

There is NO civilization without cities and there NEVER HAS BEEN. That is where the word comes from. Urbanization is one of the requirements for a real civilization.

When civilizations collapse the first thing that goes is urban life and the commerce they produce. When the cities collapse and the economies they sustain, populations flee to the countryside and eke out a miserable subsistence life of greatly diminished productivity. This is what is called a “Dark Age” and they have recurred whenever civilizations collapse.

Your idea is similar to what Pol Pot tried to do to Cambodia. It is just as sick.


27 posted on 08/16/2011 1:07:39 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

Balderdash; modern societies have no need for cities in fact cities have become nothing more than holding pens for the unproductive. Even now, businesses see the benefits of fleeing the cities; they can communicate via modern technoligies such as the internet and the internet and the servers are being relocated to secure bunker like facilities outside the cities. As the evil concentrates in the urban jungles of festering depravity and false intellectualism, the productive, the civilized are relocating to the exurbs and beyond.


28 posted on 08/16/2011 1:13:31 PM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: Martin Tell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots

“There were four major factional teams of chariot racing, differentiated by the colour of the uniform in which they competed; the colours were also worn by their supporters. These were the Blues, the Reds, the Greens, and the Whites...”

“As Justinian rallied himself, he created a plan that involved Narses, a popular eunuch, as well as the generals, Belisarius and Mundus. Carrying a bag of gold given to him by Justinian, the slightly built eunuch entered the Hippodrome alone and unarmed, against a murderous mob that had already killed hundreds.

“Narses went directly to the Blues’ section, where he approached the important Blues and reminded them that Emperor Justinian supported them over the Greens. He also reminded them that the man they were crowning, Hypatius, was a Green. Then, he distributed the gold. The Blue leaders spoke quietly with each other and then they spoke to their followers. Then, in the middle of Hypatius’s coronation, the Blues stormed out of the Hippodrome.

“The Greens sat, stunned. Then, Imperial troops led by Belisarius and Mundus stormed into the Hippodrome, killing the remaining rebels.”


29 posted on 08/16/2011 1:15:14 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: arrogantsob

And it’s the only Canaanite culture that practiced ethical monotheism which has preserved them for this long that had religious and civil components to them.

Yes, Jews have have lived outside of their homeland for much longer than they have lived in it but when was the last time you saw a civilization rise from the ashes of history to having their language and land back? Name me one. Any one, any one?

Starting in the 1960s Jews started coming back to Judaism for the first time in their history just as the Prophets foretold.


30 posted on 08/16/2011 1:15:28 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Were there any ugly people in Pre-Raphaelite paintings? I have not seen any.


31 posted on 08/16/2011 1:16:03 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: sodpoodle

“However, we did note that becoming dependent on others for necessities (other peoples labor) was equal to descending to a feral state.”

Ludicrous statement. You are cheering stepping away from civilization.


32 posted on 08/16/2011 1:18:17 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

From Wikipedia? I rest my case.


33 posted on 08/16/2011 1:19:47 PM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: Rich21IE

Your idea is called tribalism not civilization.


34 posted on 08/16/2011 1:20:06 PM PDT by Eternal_Bear
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To: AnAmericanMother
"But Rossetti couldn't draw...and most of his women look downright weird."

Wow...I've never before seen anybody so succinctly express their seething jealousy of an artist's talent and his models' beauty in one fell swoop. Congratulations.


35 posted on 08/16/2011 1:31:21 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Oh, and you might want to take a look at what Procopius said, http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/procop-wars1.asp .

Unlike Wikipedia, he was alive at the time of the riots. Looks like the Wikipedia dude got some of the details right, but where he got "Reds and Whites" I'll never know. First I've ever heard of that. And it was just a straight up fight [slaughter]; no silly bribe attempt.

Did you get "200 years" from Wikipedia as well?

Cheers

MT

36 posted on 08/16/2011 1:43:26 PM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: Kaslin

THX for the post-

good read.


37 posted on 08/16/2011 1:49:44 PM PDT by Red6
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To: Rich21IE

Cities are still the economic powerhouses in a society. Without cities farmers could not make a living. Ideas come out of cities. They are the creative elements within a society. The rest of the society just follows the leads of cities. The fact is that the big blue states (their cities actually) provide the majority of federal taxes and subsidize the majority of red states.

Check the Tax Foundation’s site for confirmation of this and it will show you that NJ gets $0.61 back for every dollar sent to Washington, Il. gets $0.75, NY $0.79, MASS $0.81, Calif $0.78, Mich $0.91, Conn $0.69. Ala $1.66, Miss $2.02, Louisiana $1.78, Ark $1.41, Virginia $1.51, S. Carolina $1.35.

Should Chicago disappear all its suburbs would either disappear as well or turn into near ghost towns. Cities provide the places where new ideas can be tried and developed. The choices provided in one like Chicago are so vast that no one person can even take advantage of them.

If I want to hire someone to do highly skilled or technical work there are literally thousands of people to choose from. In small towns there are very few. Having a huge market allows production to achieve the lowest marginal cost (Adam Smith explains this in the Wealth of Nations). Jane Jacobs explains the critical importance of cities in “The Economy of Cities” and the “Wealth of Cities”.


38 posted on 08/16/2011 1:51:19 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: Eternal_Bear

We’re already living a version of tribalism; the descent into tribalism began sometime ago. What I’m suggesting is that we leave the cities to those with clear tribal identities. They already take actions based upon their tribal allegences; it is rather, those of us with no tribe that they assault. Thus, leave the cities to the tribes and the civilized can carry on civilized pursuits elsewhere.


39 posted on 08/16/2011 1:52:56 PM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: Joe 6-pack

Its kinda of funny that a discussion of civilization morphed into a discussion of Pre-Raphaelites. They certainly show civilization at its highest.


40 posted on 08/16/2011 1:54:16 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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