Confederate Memorial Day (Virginia)

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

We all know that today is a day to remember US troops that have fallen in battle.
In the state of Virginia today is also a day to remember our brave soldiers of the Confederacy.

The marching armies of the past
Along our Southern plains,
Are sleeping now in quiet rest
Beneath the Southern rains.

The bugle call is now in vain
To rouse them from their bed;
To arms they'll never march again--
They are sleeping with the dead.

No more will Shiloh's plains be stained
With blood our heroes shed,
Nor Chancellorsville resound again
To our noble warriors' tread.

For them no more shall reveille
Sound at the break of dawn,
But may their sleep peaceful be
Till God's great judgment morn.

We bow our heads in solemn prayer
For those who wore the gray,
And clasp again their unseen hands
On our Memorial Day.

-Author Unknown

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Indeed.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Donating to CW trusts was never an argument. What is your problem, dude?

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Dr. McWhiney also wrote; Trollope observed that; David H. Fisher in his book Albion's Seed; John Adams; George Mason also noted...

Yeah yeah yeah, what do they know.

I've seen the recruiting posters that these Maine recruits responded to. The posters appealed to the men's innermost honor by asking them to end the horror of slavery, and respond they did...many or most to die on the battlefield.

So whatever intellectual arguments the high-up mucky-mucks may have had for prosecuting the Civil War, the cannon fodder from Maine were fighting and dying to end slavery.

By the way, aren't you supposed to give attribution when you copy/paste stuff like that?

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Yeah yeah yeah, what do they know.

Yeah, I'm sure that YOU know tons more than stupid old Trollope, Fisher, John Adams and George Mason. /s

from Maine were fighting and dying to end slavery.

LOLOLOLOL! Chamberlain (from Maine) said that most of the men he knew were NOT fighting the war because of blacks. Very few in the North cared for blacks. Didn't you see the post farther up on the thread showing how many northern states barred blacks from entering? And haven't you heard of the draft riots up North where numerous blacks were lynched?

(Most of the data I have given in this thread is from a book by James Ronald Kennedy and Walter Donald Kennedy. They cite a bazillion original sources.)

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Very few in the North cared for blacks. Didn't you see the post farther up on the thread showing how many northern states barred blacks from entering? And haven't you heard of the draft riots up North where numerous blacks were lynched?

Ever heard of the Underground Railroad?

Most of the data I have given in this thread is from a book by James Ronald Kennedy and Walter Donald Kennedy. They cite a bazillion original sources.

Ah, there it is, better late than never.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Ever heard of the Underground Railroad?

Lol. Or course. The few who helped with that are NOT representative of the majority of Northerners' sentiments towards blacks. If you have studied the war and etc. you should know that abolitionists were a minority. We hear a lot about them today, but they were only a small group of people and did NOT represent the feeling of most Northerners towards blacks. Again, have you read the post upthread about many Northern states barring blacks from entering and Northerners saying they want the territories slave free because they want those lands reserved for white labor and white labor only?

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Northern states barring blacks from entering and Northerners saying they want the territories slave free because they want those lands reserved for white labor and white labor only?

How typical, damn democrats, they're everywhere.

Blacks used to know which side their bread was buttered on, most black elected officials were Republicans until about 1935.

The Klan was a democrat domestic terrorist outfit whose purpose was to keep blacks from voting for Republicans....now they have been replaced by the "New NAACP".

Look, if you want to identify with the racist Southern Democrats, that's your right. Nobody's trying to stop you.

But I repudiate it and want nothing to do with it.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Lol. If you want to think that go ahead. Just remember: Lincoln wond by a landslide up North. And up North was the same place where many states had banned blacks from entering their states. Seems like there were a lot of racist republicans too. And those free soilers who wanted the territories for white labor? More republicans for you.... :-)

[righttackle44]

Oh, heck yes. Let’s rationalize. Southerns want freedom and states’ rights. So then take away the freedom of Africans, bring them to the South as slaves, then blame the Muslims and other Africans. Then, Southern freedom becomes racist.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

More republicans for you....

OH! So you really are a democrat.

I knew it.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

HAHAHAH! I remarked about many Northern states banning blacks from entering. You said: "How typical, damn democrats, they're everywhere." I was just pointing out the stupidity of your statement (which was ever so full of fail), because the North went solid republican. It was republican states up North who wanted to keep blacks out, not democrats.

Also, as a side note in case you didn't know: The democrats of that time have almost nothing in common with today's liberals. The parties have changed a lot since that time. On many issues the democrat party was the more conservative party back then.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

So then take away the freedom of Africans, bring them to the South as slaves

Oh, you're talking about the Yankee slave traders now? yeah, they made lots of $$$$$$ on that business. They would make lots of rum and then trade the rum for slaves in Africa. The New England colonies threw a fit when Britain wanted to tax the rum industry. They said it would ruin the area's economy.

Btw, did you know that of all the slaves the Yankee slave traders made $$$$ from selling, only 6% ended up in the South? (The south was never a really good market for slaves) The rest went to markets with more demand, such as the carribean and south america, and most died there from the cruelty inflcted on them. In contrast, Blacks in the South were treated much better. More blacks die every year from black-on-black crime than ever died from lychings, beatings, and etc. during all the years of slavery in the South.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Celebrate "Republicans freed the Slaves Month"

ROFLOLOLOL!

Aside from a few abolitionists, Northerners did not care about the slaves. And guess what? The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave. Aside from its very dubious constitutionality (you can't overturn established law with just a presidential proclamation. If you could, Obama would be doing it all the time), Lincoln was declaring slaves to be free in another country where he had no authority. And regarding those slaves in union states or union held areas it was specifically written that they were to be left as before. Grant didn't have to free his slaves until the 13th amendment was passed. Lincoln cared about the slaves. Sure.

The proclamation was a war measure, plain and simple. Lincoln said that "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." The proclamation's goal was to cloak the Northern invasion in morality and discourage England and France from joining in and helping the Confederacy. It made lots of Northerners mad though, and there were lynchings of blacks up North because of it.

Btw, Britain offered freedom to any slaves that would join them against the colonists in the War for American Independence (and there were slaves in EVERY state at that time). I guess that makes Britain the good guys. We should celebrate them too, right? After all, they just cared about the slaves so much....

[jmacusa]

Donating to the CWT isn’t an ‘’argument’’, I know that and I wasn’t directing it at you necessarily, though you could donate if you wanted to. I was directing it towards ‘’central va’’ and have been for some time but he always avoids the issue. Whats my problem? My problem is with Confederate losers like you romancing a dark and ugly time in America, a time you really know nothing about. You think you do but you don’t. You’re living in a land that people the world over literally DIE trying to get to and all you can do is bitch and moan about how terrible it is and try and apply a socio/political template from 150 years ago to the present that makes no sense. And as to The Civil War Trust? For all this f’ing “Southern Heritage’’ (i.e , The Confederacy, Confederate ancestors, Civil War battlefields, etc. ) you all go on about like it’s so glorious and enduring, and sacred well I’m here to tell you bub THEY”RE DISAPPEARING!! OKAY? Developers and big corporations want to bulldozer it all over and make ‘em into Walmarts and Marriot Hotels. You okay with that? I’m not. I’m trying to get you jackasses TO CARE! Politics aside if these battlefields disappear for good than what do we tell the future generations? “Well, you see over there in aisle 3, that’s where General Picketts men began their charge’’. Sound okay to you? Not to me, bub, not to me. Donate damn it!

[jmacusa]

Do understand anything I’ve said? You don’t, do you? I’m not happy with the present situation and Washington , if you haven’t noticed , is the literal center of power here. And what is it with The Stars and Stripes that you have a problem with, particularly?

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

try and apply a socio/political template from 150 years ago to the present that makes no sense

I guess trying to apply a political template from the the 1770-80s to today's present politics makes no sense either. We should just forget about what the founders thought and stood for and embrace our new socialistisc big government. It is obvious that no people anywhere have the right to declare themselves free from a government they don't like. It must not be a fundamental right anymore. It was wrong for the south to seceed and form its own governemnt, so it must have ben terribly wrong for the states of the former Soviet Union to leave the USSR too. And it must have been wrong for Panama to seceed from Colombia. And of course the Founders of this country were wrong to seceed from Britain.

Look bud. Either secession is a fundamental right as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or it is not. If the South was wrong for seceeding and had no right to seceed, than the colonies had no right to leave Britain, Texas had no right to leave Mexico, the former states of the soviet union had no right to leave the USSR, and Panama had no right to leave Columbia, and south sudan has no right to leave north Sudan (as they are trying to do right now). Which is it?

big corporations want to bulldozer it all over and make ‘em into Walmarts and Marriot Hotels. You okay with that?

Of course not. But that is not what we are arguing about. You are just using a red herring to attack others because you cannot come up with a real comeback to the facts and principles stated.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Washington , if you haven’t noticed , is the literal center of power here

Duh. It wasn't meant to be that way though. The constitution only gave the Govenrment very very limited powers. Everything else was left to the states. The States delegated powers to the federal government when they created it. You don't delegate to an entity who is above you, but to one who is equal or inferior. Of course it didn't take long for the federal govenrment to begin enlarging itself and trampling on the rights of the states. When a government becomes the sole judge of its own power, what can be expected?

There are times to throw off old government. The colonists thought so. They didn't say "We should march in peaceful protest" or ask other colonists what it was with the flag of Britain that they had a problem with. The time had come to create a new government of the people, by the people, and for the people, deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed.

The same with the War for Southern Independence. When a governemnt becomes too powerful or destructive of the rights of the citizens (and in this case States as well), a people have the right to throw it off. At least the Founding Fathers thought so....

[Sherman Logan]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

By the very words of the Declaration of Independence, any change in government for the purpose of perpetuating and extending that ultimate denial of its basic principle, that "all men are created equal," chattel slavery, is not and cannot be legitimate. Any powers such a government might use could by definition not be "just powers."

[righttackle44]

Yeah. It was the Yankee slave traders who sold the slaves to the Southerners, Who made it a states’ rights issue to hold on to enslaving human beings. And oh, yes. Let’s go to relativism. Our slaves were treated much better than your slaves. You may not be stupid, but that argument is about one of the slimey-ist that exists on the planet. There should not have been slavery at all.

[Rebelbase]

“Didn’t take a war to end it in the north.”

Yes it did. It took 80 years total and a full year into the war before an edict at the Federal level abolished slavery.