Have you ever heard the Mormon missionary spiel? I have, more than once.
They don't mention the star Kolob, or becoming gods, or the book of Abraham, or any of that science fiction stuff. (In fact they tap dance like Astaire when I bring up those topics...)
What they do is say, "Here. Read the Book of Mormon. Pray to God about it. Ask Him to put in your heart the knowledge of whether it is true or false."
And that spiel seems to work, a fair amount of the time.
So those Mormons know that the BoM is true.
And yet, standing to the side, it's easy for me to see that the whole thing is just flim-flam.
There are lots of different "knows" about the existence of God. Particularly in Protestantism, where no human authority is an intermediary between man and God.
Can a final Truth exist? Yes, of course. Does that Truth correspond to the doctrines of a particular faith? I'm simply in no position to say.
I used to enjoy my visits from the Mormon missionaries when I was younger, in one beach city I would drink beer while the two tried to convert me before I went out for the evening.
Speaking of that pair, the visits seemed warm and they became pretty open about some of the more weird stuff, I had a sincere curiosity about their cult and I did not debate, or want to debate them, I only wanted to learn about their cult, just as I used to do with the Krishnas, and the Children of God.
As time went by, I got the feeling that those two saw coming over to my place as a little vacation, a place where they could let their hair down and relax with someone not much older, and sometimes they would even show a little doubt about their religion. I got the real impression that I had a positive, eye opening effect on them and I sometimes wonder if they drifted away from that religion and hopefully to a Christian one.
Indeed. Numerous. These days, I'm more conversational with them. Good exchanges.
They don't mention the star Kolob, or becoming gods, or the book of Abraham, or any of that science fiction stuff. (In fact they tap dance like Astaire when I bring up those topics...)
Yes, you have them pegged.
What they do is say, "Here. Read the Book of Mormon. Pray to God about it. Ask Him to put in your heart the knowledge of whether it is true or false." And that spiel seems to work, a fair amount of the time.
Yes, it appeals to feelings, one of the shameless gods of our age.
So those Mormons know that the BoM is true. And yet, standing to the side, it's easy for me to see that the whole thing is just flim-flam.
Again. Agreed.
There are lots of different "knows" about the existence of God. Particularly in Protestantism, where no human authority is an intermediary between man and God.
This is where we part. In case you missed it, we claim the Son of God, Jesus Christ, was and is also fully human.
So there's two claims ya gotta note if you're talking to Protestants on this:
* Jesus is our intermediary: "For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind, the MAN Christ Jesus (Paul, 1 Timothy 2:5)
[Note: These Hebrew passages also pinpoint Jesus as the lone mediator of the New Covenant: see Hebrews 8:6; 9:15; 12:24]
* Jesus is our Living Revelation: 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Jesus is that human mediator and direct point of contact between God and man -- to the point that He says post-resurrection, "All authority has been given unto me..." (Matthew 28:18).
There are lots of different "knows" about the existence of God.
This is true. James, Jesus' half-brother, said in James 2:19 that demons have a cognitive knowledge -- a cognitive assent -- about God's existence...and tremble!
To exemplify what you say, "truth" is indeed propositional. Yet Jesus chose to define Truth as Personal -- and we experience people: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6)
Can a final Truth exist? Yes, of course. Does that Truth correspond to the doctrines of a particular faith? I'm simply in no position to say.
And what I'm saying here is that first and foremost, Jesus Himself is that "final Truth"...surely when somebody announces to you that they are the Alpha and Omega -- the beginning and the end -- we know they are making quite a claim.
In that final chapter of Revelation (22), Jesus announces: 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” (Revelation 22:12-16)
As for being "in a position to say," Mormons rely upon a burning bosom. But we say the Holy Spirit isn't limited to heating up the bosom area [which, BTW, if you ask enough people, they'll tell you can be provoked by all manner of things...including that which isn't reputed to be "of the spirit."]
So how we do become "in a position to say?"
Jesus says we don't choose Him; He chooses us (John 15). Jesus said the Father draws people (John 6). Paul says the Holy Spirit leads us (from the inside-out) to confess Jesus as Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3).
There ya go. We don't receive credit or glory. 'Tis God manifesting HIMSELF -- not just feelings -- in and and through us.
We can continue to oppose His entry in and through our life; or we can lay down our resistance and defenses. A new life can germinate.
What they DON'T say...
"Here. Read the Doctrines & Covenants.
Read the Pearl of Great Price.
Read the Joseph Smith 'translation' of the King James Bible..
Pray to God about it.
Ask Him to put in your heart the knowledge of whether THEY are true or false."