Posted on 05/01/2011 7:24:18 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
I have no proof. All I have is my faith.
Lurkers will note that goml has to now revert to a fallacy called 'moving the goalposts'. He was refuted without using scripture, now he has to revise his challenge.
BTW, just more opinion, no empirical facts to support the claim.
I know all of this because this is what God told me. He tells me you follow an illusion. Prove me wrong. You can't.
My God tells me that you are a fool. Prove me wrong. You can't
And I will join with you in asserting the same. I could NEVER go back to unbelief - I have seen too much and know too much to ever ditch it. That is the reward we are all promised, that if we seek him with all our hearts he will be found. For the sincere, honest skeptic, the fence sitting eventually gets too uncomfortable and a choice must be made. Being that none of us has any guarantee that we will live the next minute, now is the acceptable time, now is the day of our salvation.
I am not an atheist, metmom. So shut your trap.
Indeed.
After Weiner Week on FOX; I am a bit apprehensive about going to look at ANYones FaceBook account!
You believe in God. Good, even the demons believe and tremble.
Since you believe in Him, then why don’t you believe what He told us about Himself in Scripture?
They don't seem to understand that. Rather they treat doubt to their unsubstantiated claims as a claim that needs to be evidenced!!! This is scary. Doubt is justified in all cases of unsusbtanited claims. Period. This is so basic, it shouldn't even have to be mentioned unless you are addressing a bunch of adolescents. LOL.
If say there are pink unicorns on Jupiter and you as for a proof and I turn around and say "no, you prove that there aren't" you have a situation we encounter here on daily basis. It is positively asinine.
The other problem is that their "evidence" is subjective or "experiential" or "witnessed". The type of "proof" they offer would be laughed at in every court in every school in every place of work: "God told me."
Try not showing at work because "God told you" to take a day off and see how long you keep your job. Try blaming God for your behavior, and see how much the courts will buy it; "God told me."
Which was why even after revealing the fallacy of appealing to arguments from ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam) that was repeatedly being resorted to by the person I was replying to earlier, he just didn’t seem to get it.
Those tribals could have been “saved” (his belief) because I “can’t prove” that special-purpose angels didn’t inform them about his adopted dogma, LOL!
Circular “reasoning” is all they have, but they’re blind to it.
Stop spinning and get a life. I never said I believe. I have said all along that I don't know. I am agnostic and there is no amount of spin that will turn than into a belief of any kind. I neither affirm nor deny God. I don't know what God is, I can't deny or affirm what don't know.
Good example!
But perhaps God does not have very special reasons to submit to a test from others....I just found it interesting....I recently put God to a test and He passed. I am 1/2 way there....(this is not said with pride, just the fact). Even many of the saints in the catholic church has to deal with lack of faith.....Mother Theresa spoke of this once. So have the writing of many saints....its quite common.
Don't know if this makes sense to you, I sometimes have a hard time trying to explain things...
You are right, people even back then were skeptical of fantastic stories and asked for proof. I have a little secret for you: it's not so much what the Christians said but what a superstitious pagan emperor had to say. He is the one who made Christianity the only allowed religion in the Roman Empire, and has rmeianed such for almost 1700 years in Europe. Based on a superstitious dream of an emperor. That's why we still talk about a story that was circulated 2,000 years ago.
I commented on what I observed which was numerous posts about certain people without them being pinged to your posts. As I recall, this has been a complaint of yours at times. I guess I'm not your favorite person anymore, huh? ;o)
No pathos involved.
Since we’ve already established that you would not accept even the “proof” you name the term “agnostic” doesn’t seem quite right.
And since the proof has already been presented you’re simply asking for reruns on the cheap and that just doesn’t fly.
Of course my post wasn’t addressed to you, was it?
Exactly. Their other excuse is that they died for their religion. Islamic extremists do every day. They use one measuring tool and two different criteria.
Or for that matter, that of the Mormons? The latter superstition developed and grew in an age of reliable documentation, barely a century ago, not 2000+ years into antiquity
With the crucial (and most unbelievable) evidence (the gold plates in hieroglyphs) MISSING! The whole religions is base don a testimony of one shady character who "testified" that he saw the plates before they were lost...that's like the Ark, the most sacred relic, along with the 10 Commandments, lost! Conveniently.
The Fatima scam is a classic example of unreliability of "witness" testimony, especially massive eyewitness account during frenzy. Another excellent example is a British reporter who "saw" a British paratrooper on the Blood Sunday in Belfast in the 1970's point a rifle at him.
He swears the soldier had a red beret. But photographs of the incident (which did take place) show unmistakeably that the paratrooper wore a green steel helmet! The reporter to this day, despite having seen the photograph says his brain refuses to acknowledge it and when he closes his eyes he "remembers" a red beret!.
Anyway, unreliability of human recollection and eyewitness accounts is a separate study that points very conclusively that human "witness" is patently unreliably.
You are spot on, goml. Very good. Humans can conjure up any theological scenario and then say simply prove me wrong...you can't.
What you are witnessing first hand is the result of misplaced priorities. Born Againers place their own personal beliefs above all else. Their theology even holds them blameless, they can commit no sin because they are Saved by the Blood of Christ. This relieves them of the burden of critical thought or reasoning. Every hateful thought and action is instantly absolved and made pure by the Blood of Christ.
This is why you won't see any condemnation of a Born Againer by another Born Againer. They know that the Born Againers motives and heart are pure and that is what counts. The Muslims have an almost identical theology in that respect. The same goes for the AGW'ers, etc. etc.
Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
As Cronos reminded me earlier there are liberal trolls like Hankerchief who intentionally flame the hatred, but I think on the whole it is a self inflicted wound on the conservative movement. For example earlier betty boop called me treasonous because I am an Atheist. And betty boop isn't a liberal plant, but that makes my point.
What we are doing is very painful to the Born Againers. Telling and explaining the truth to them is like taking a vampire out into the sun and expecting them to thank you for it.
Each of our posts is as offensive to them as Agememnons is to us. We are lucky that they aren't as secure in their delusion as Muslims or we would be hunted men by now. Thankfully our founding fathers understood this predilection of the People of the Book and did what they could to keep them out of power.
Is what we are doing pointless? I don't know. I fight on because it is my nature to try to learn and speak the truth. I think the biggest benefit to me personally is that The Born Againers are terrific contra indicators. Almost everything they believe is wrong and simply disagreeing with them makes me right, I never would have believed it if I hadn't tried it. That principle doesn't just work with Born Againers, it works with any mass movement with devoted followers. Self delusion must be some kind of survival mechanism in the Human race.
Exactly : )
Actually we can prove they didn't if we are held to the same standard of proof that they hold themselves too. None.
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