Posted on 06/29/2010 1:40:59 AM PDT by jdirt
The former Honolulu elections official who alleges Barack Obama was "definitely" not born in Hawaii and that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate even exists for the president in the Aloha State now says he's the victim of a vicious smear campaign, threatening his position as an instructor at Western Kentucky University.
"There have been attempts by various parties, some bloggers and others to attempt to discredit [my] claims, but none of them has held up to any scrutiny or rebuttal," Tim Adams, the former senior elections clerk in 2008 for the city and county of Honolulu, is now telling WND.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Did you make that up yourself, or did you just uncritically pick it up from some random blogger who made it up?
Your understanding is incorrect. I suggest you check your facts before you go repeating some rumor you see on a random blog.
I read the hearing on McCain egiliblity
Don't believe everything you read. There was no such hearing.
Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing held March 2008
McCain was requested to supply birth documention , he complied. He supplied both long and short forms of his birth records. The hearing accepted that definition of a natural born citizen as someone naturally born to two American parents. McCain’s long form birth record was posted on the internet. Check your facts before accusing people of posting false information. As I said before the same hearing was requested for obama but was denied. If this issue ever made to the Supreme Court obama would lose 5-4 as being inegilible to be president. This is the reason obama can never allow anyone to have a certified copy of his birth record. It is the legal proof that he is not a natural born citizen.
There was no hearning on McCain's eligibility.
McCain was requested to supply birth documention , he complied. He supplied both long and short forms of his birth records.
That is simply not true. You need to stop making things up.
The hearing accepted that definition of a natural born citizen as someone naturally born to two American parents.
There was no hearing.
McCain’s long form birth record was posted on the internet.
No it wasn't. The McCain BC you saw posted on the internet is a forgery that was submitted into evidence by a plaintiff suing to get McCain disqualified from the GOP primary. McCain's lawyers denied the authenticity of that BC, and the judge dismissed the case.
Check your facts before accusing people of posting false information.
I have. You are posting false information.
As I said before the same hearing was requested for obama but was denied.
That is also not true.
If this issue ever made to the Supreme Court obama would lose 5-4 as being inegilible to be president
SCOTUS has been given several opportunities to hear the case, and it has refused.
There was a Senate Judiciary hearing held in 2008 and a Senate resolution was passed stating that McCain was a Natural Born citizen.
The Supreme Court has not accepted any cases against obama ,because no one has proved that they have “standing “ to bring such a case forward.
Only congress can remove obama (voiding his election on the grounds of being inegiblile )
Earth. You obviously are not.There was a Senate Judiciary hearing held in 2008
No there wasn't.
and a Senate resolution was passed stating that McCain was a Natural Born citizen.
Finally you get a fact right. Yes, there was a non-binding resolution passed declaring McCain to be a NBC. That is the first claim you have made that was true.
However, McCain never submitted his birth certificate to the committee. The committee never held a hearing on the matter. And no one proposed that there be a hearing on Obama's eligibility.
So it looks like you're batting 1 for 4. I suppose that's not bad for a birther.
The Senate resolution was the result of the Senate hearings.
I don’t consider myself a”birther” because it dosn’t matter where obama was born at ,both parents must be U.S. citizens to be a Natural born citizen. obama is not a natural born citizen and thus not the legal President of the U.S.
Odie! You’re branching out with your never-substantiated self! I am so unimpressed!
Like curiosity said, there were no "Senate hearings" held about McCain's eligibility.
All there ever was was a April 2, 2008 Judiciary Committee hearing entitled “Oversight of the Dept. of Homeland Security.” Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff testified at that hearing. The transcript of Chertoff’s testimony runs 42 pages long.
During that 42-page testimony, Senator Leahy asked one question about McCain, and Chertoff (a former federal judge and the head of US immigration) gave a one-sentence reply. That exchange is the ONLY Senate committee testimony about McCain's eligibility. Despite what others have claimed, McCain never testified and no documents were ever involved.
I think it may also help to illustrate how significant, in the world of senate resolutions, SR511 really was. Right in front and behind that resolution? Senate Resolutions 510 (“A resolution supporting the goals and ideals of National Cystic Fibrosis Awareness Month.”) and 512 (“A resolution honoring the life of Charlton Heston”).
Pluto, you must have a previous screen name. Come on, what was it?
This is your first post on FR. Odd, that.
“Thanks for the info. BTW, do you know where I can get a transcript from that hearing?”
http://judiciary.senate.gov/resources/transcripts/110transcripts.cfm
No, I don’t believe that’s accurate, jeremiah. I’ve dipped in and out of FR many times in following others’ links to it but I don’t recall actually posting.
Possibly it happened some time long past but certainly not recently and I’ve been Plutodog or some version of that (if the name was already taken) for a long time. I think I’ve tried before but not been able to get through for some reason and gave up.
I have, however had comments with Odie in other forums. Never ever could get him to cite any proof though...and I was hardly alone in that.
I wonder how long he'll last in the slammer?
And Senator Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961--not long after its admission to the Union on August 21, 1959. We find it inconceivable that Senator Obama would have been ineligible for the Presidency had he been born two years earlier.
AND
Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;
That first sentence is the last one in Paragraph 7 and that "Whereas" is the next to last in the resolution.
It proves that this entire charade was intended for Obama's benefit, and not McCain's.
Speaking of charades:
From the last paragraph of Loren's blog post, The Tribe/Olson Memo on Natural Born Citizenship:
"Given the stature of Messrs Tribe and Olson, this should, by any measure, be a nail in the coffin of the 'two-citizen-parent' theory of Presidential eligibility. However, it appears that the memo in its entirety is rather hard to come by online. So I present it here, for your reading pleasure:"
How exactly, Loren, do you conclude from their memo that this is a nail in the coffin of the 'two-citizen-parent' theory of Presidential eligibility, when Tribe and Olson specifically mention "two US citizen parents" like NINE (9) TIMES?
Oh, I forgot...you are a totally clueless poser.
------------------------------
March 19, 2008.
1. We have analyzed whether Senator John McCain is eligible for the U.S. Presidency, in light of the requirement under Article II of the U.S. Constitution that only ``natural born Citizen[s] ..... shall be eligible to the Office of President.'' U.S. Const. art. II, §1, cl. 5. We conclude that Senator McCain is a ``natural born Citizen'' by virtue of his birth in 1936 to U.S. citizen parents who were serving their country on a U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone. The circumstances of Senator McCain's birth satisfy the original meaning and intent of the Natural Born Citizen Clause, as confirmed by subsequent legal precedent and historical practice.
2. The Constitution does not define the meaning of ``natural born Citizen.'' The U.S. Supreme Court gives meaning to terms that are not expressly defined in the Constitution by looking to the context in which those terms are used; to statutes enacted by the First Congress, Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783, 790-91 (1983); and to the common law at the time of the Founding. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 655 (1898). These sources all confirm that the phrase ``natural born'' includes both birth abroad to parents who were citizens, and birth within a nation's territory and allegiance. Thus, regardless of the sovereign status of the Panama Canal Zone at the time of Senator McCain's birth, he is a ``natural born'' citizen because he was born to parents who were U.S. citizens.
3. Congress has recognized in successive federal statutes since the Nation's Founding that children born abroad to U.S. citizens are themselves U.S. citizens. 8 U.S.C. §1401(c); see also Act of May 24, 1934, Pub. L. No. 73-250, §1, 48 Stat. 797, 797. Indeed, the statute that the First Congress enacted on this subject not only established that such children are U.S. citizens, but also expressly referred to them as ``natural born citizens.'' Act of Mar. 26, 1790, ch. 3, §1, 1 Stat. 103, 104.
4. Senator McCain's status as a ``natural born'' citizen by virtue of his birth to U.S. citizen parents is consistent with British statutes in force when the Constitution was drafted, which undoubtedly informed the Framers' understanding of the Natural Born Citizen Clause. Those statutes provided, for example, that children born abroad to parents who were ``natural-born Subjects'' were also ``natural-born Subjects ..... to all Intents, Constructions and Purposes whatsoever.'' British Nationality Act, 1730, 4 Geol. 2, c. 21. The Framers substituted the word ``citizen'' for ``subject'' to reflect the shift from monarchy to democracy, but the Supreme Court has recognized that the two terms are otherwise identical. See, e.g., Hennessy v. Richardson Drug Co., 189 U.S. 25, 34-35 (1903). Thus, the First Congress's statutory recognition that persons born abroad to U.S. citizens were ``natural born'' citizens fully conformed to British tradition, whereby citizenship conferred by statute based on the circumstances of one's birth made one natural born.
5. There is a second and independent basis for concluding that Senator McCain is a ``natural born'' citizen within the meaning of the Constitution. If the Panama Canal Zone was sovereign U.S. territory at the time of Senator McCain's birth, then that fact alone would make him a ``natural born'' citizen under the well-established principle that ``natural born'' citizenship includes birth within the territory and allegiance of the United States. See, e.g., Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. at 655-66. The Fourteenth Amendment expressly enshrines this connection between birthplace and citizenship in the text of the Constitution. U.S. Const. amend. XIV, §1 (``All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. *.*.* '') (emphases added). Premising ``natural born'' citizenship on the character of the territory in which one is born is rooted in the common-law understanding that persons born within the British kingdom and under loyalty to the British Crown--including most of the Framers themselves, who were born in the American colonies--were deemed ``natural born subjects.'' See, e.g., 1 William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England 354 (Legal Classics Library 1983) (1765) (``Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England, that is, within the ligeance, or as it is generally called, the allegiance of the king.*.*.* '').
6. There is substantial legal support for the proposition that the Panama Canal Zone was indeed sovereign U.S. territory when Senator McCain was born there in 1936. The U.S. Supreme Court has explained that, ``[f]rom 1904 to 1979, the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal and the surrounding 10-mile-wide Panama Canal Zone.'' 0'Connor v. United States, 479 U.S. 27, 28 (1986). Congress and the executive branch similarly suggested that the Canal Zone was subject to the sovereignty of the United States. See, e.g., The President--Government of the Canal Zone, 26 Op. Att'y Gen. 113, 116 (1907) (recognizing that the 1904 treaty between the United States and Panama ``imposed upon the United States the obligations as well as the powers of a sovereign within the [Canal Zone]''); Panama Canal Act of 1912, Pub. L. No. 62-337, §1, 37 Stat. 560, 560 (recognizing that ``the use, occupancy, or control'' of the Canal Zone had been ``granted to the United States by the treaty between the United States and the Republic of Panama''). Thus, although Senator McCain was not born within a State, there is a significant body of legal authority indicating that he was nevertheless born within the sovereign territory of the United States.
7. Historical practice confirms that birth on soil that is under the sovereignty of the United States, but not within a State, satisfies the Natural Born Citizen Clause. For example, Vice President Charles Curtis was born in the territory of Kansas on January 25, 1860--one year before Kansas became a State. Because the Twelfth Amendment requires that Vice Presidents possess the same qualifications as Presidents, the service of Vice President Curtis verifies that the phrase ``natural born Citizen'' includes birth outside of any State but within U.S. territory. Similarly, Senator Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona before its statehood, yet attained the Republican Party's presidential nomination in 1964. And Senator Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961--not long after its admission to the Union on August 21, 1959. We find it inconceivable that Senator Obama would have been ineligible for the Presidency had he been born two years earlier.
8. Senator McCain's candidacy for the Presidency is consistent not only with the accepted meaning of ``natural born Citizen,'' but also with the Framers' intentions when adopting that language. The Natural Born Citizen Clause was added to the Constitution shortly after John Jay sent a letter to George Washington expressing concern about ``Foreigners'' attaining the position of Commander in Chief. 3 Max Farrand, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, at 61 (1911). It goes without saying that the Framers did not intend to exclude a person from the office of the President simply because he or she was born to U.S. citizens serving in the U.S. military outside of the continental United States; Senator McCain is certainly not the hypothetical ``Foreigner'' who John Jay and George Washington were concerned might usurp the role of Commander in Chief.
9. Therefore, based on the original meaning of the Constitution, the Framers' intentions, and subsequent legal and historical precedent, Senator McCain's birth to parents who were U.S. citizens, serving on a U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936, makes him a ``natural born Citizen'' within the meaning of the Constitution.
LAURENCE H. TRIBE.
THEODORE B. OLSON.
Mr. BROWN. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent the resolution be agreed to, the preamble be agreed to, the motions to reconsider be laid upon the table, with no intervening action or debate, and any statements be printed in the Record.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
The resolution (S. 511) was agreed to.
The preamble was agreed to.
The resolution, with its preamble, is as follows:
S. Res. 511
Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a ``natural born Citizen'' of the United States;
Whereas the term ``natural born Citizen'', as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States;
Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President;
Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the ``natural born Citizen'' clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress's own statute defining the term ``natural born Citizen'';
Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders;
Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and
Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a ``natural born Citizen'' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.
BTTT
Polygraphs are great as long as you have a good well trained examiner.
BOR is basically a punk. He doesn’t even do his own research but depends on lackeys who just yes him to death or pay the price. he is an arrogant SOB.
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