Posted on 04/26/2010 7:32:44 AM PDT by Black_Shark
Hey guys and gals,
My name is Andrew and I've been a lurker here for over 3 years now and I can't express how much this site means to me or to my sanity. Maybe some of you will remember me from my post about 2 years ago asking for help on writing a paper on political correctness. Since I got some great help there, I decided to ask for help again!
I'm a 20 year old sophomore at North Carolina State University and am currently taking Sociology 202. My professor and I have gotten into many an argument concerning politics ( He is a firm believer in indoctrinating the youth, rather than teaching sociology) and I have shot him down every single time thanks to this website. In this mornings class ( After watching a video about how the Blacks and Native Americans were oppressed by the EVIL white man) he started a debate about the New Immigration Bill passed by Arizona.
He, along with a Mexican woman classmate, proceeded to shoot down the bill and the woman called it "Racist, discriminating, and an insult to civil and American rights!" I then pointed out to her that A) Racially profiling for illegal immigrants in Arizona makes sense since illegals in Arizona aren't white and aren't black but mexican. Also that 70% of Arizonians support this measure. My professor then stated that "The federal government (AKA Obambi) will overrule this." I then pointed out to him that State Rights trump Federal rights and that since the federal government is doing nothing about the immigration problem it fell onto the States to handle it. Oh, and I mentioned how the 10th amendment states that "Any powers not specifically granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution are given to the States exclusively". He then said that I was wrong. I the told him, "Do you not understand the Constitution?? It's written clear as day!"
Apparently, this upset him and he declared we would be devoting a day to debating whether this new law passed by Arizona and the whole illegal immigration issue.
I need some good arguments denouncing illegal immigration. Facts, figures, anything. I will be checking this throughout the next 2 days since my class is at 9:10am Wednesday morning. Thanks!
- Black_Shark
FIRST: Hie thee hence to the Heritage Foundation website. Absolutely any righteous argument you want to handle is on that site. Also, townhall.com is a good site- you will find a lot of info there.
And try these:
www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt10.html. This government site has a list of SC decisions re: states’ rights (The SC has come down on the side of the pure intent of the 10th more often than not).
One more- www.american-conservativevalues.com/constitution/states-rights.html.
Illegal immigrants start their life in this country by breaking the law- I don’t see how it is “unjust” for the states to deal with this.
We did NOT “steal” this country from Mexico. Texas won its independence from Mexico and was a sovereign country, recognized by the US AND Europe, for something like a year before the people IN the COUNTRY of Texas voted to join the US. And the Gadsen Purchase cost us as much as the Louisiana Purphase (for a lot less land).
You might want to remind your Mexican friend that her “forefathers” from Spain and France were no less “oppressive” towards the indiginous people than the British and French were here. In fact, as I understand history, the Conquistadors were a whole lot worse than the Puritans. Also, I would ask her why WE can’t protect our borders at least as well as Mexico protects its own.
Protecting the border is a states’ rights issue, a security issue, and a legal issue. It’s too bad about your professor- I had one like that too, but he was a happy guy who was perfectly willing to debate and take his lumps. I would hump into class with book lists, printouts- and he always shared them with the class. He was a brain dead leftie and an old hippie, but he was fair. A pretty good guy...
Force him at gun point back across the boarder.
There is a thought right there. Shark, do you have a Conservative friend who isn't in the class but would be willing and available to go help argue your point? If the poofessor throws him out he makes your point for you.
Great research. Thanks.
Arizonans fork out nearly $1.3 billion annually to pay for all of the costs incurred from illegal immigration; around $810 million for education, $400 million for health care related expenses, $80 million in incarceration costs, and the remainder in welfare benefits. All of this is required while Arizona runs a $500 million deficit annually.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/131697/illegal_immigration_costs_arizona_taxpayers.html
In other words, AZ would have a $800,000,000 surplus if they didn’t have to support illegals.
the next time your “professor” talks about the “evil White man”, point out that all peoples, at some point in history, have oppressed other peoples. Whites were captured into slavery in North Africa for centuries by North Africans raiding European coastlines. American Indians regularly captured into slavery other American Indians. And on and on.
Border security is a primary function of the federal government. The federal government has abdicated that responsibility for decades along our Southern border.
There is a technique that you can use to effectively shut your professor up. When he accuses the law of racism or calls you a racist, do the following:
Tell him he is a good follower of Saul Alinsky, who wrote the book, Rules for Radicals.
Cite Rule #13, “13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and ‘frozen.’...
“...any target can always say, ‘Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?’ When your ‘freeze the target,’ you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the ‘others’ come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...’
“One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other.” (pps.127-134)”
Then tell him that he is using an Alinsky tactic of using ridicule and that using the tactic is like turning the real argument into a spitball contest that children have and it cheapens the real argument.
Next say...”If you are going to play the race card, you simply cheapen the real argument”.
In summary, accuse him of doing exactly what he is doing. It will catch him like a deer in the headlights. I have done this to many leftists both online and in real life. It is a shocker to them.
I had a different screen name then. I completely forgot the information and have deleted that old email address so I decided to make a new one with all of my new information. Sorry about the confusion!
Thanks guys and gals! This info is amazing and I will be sure to print handouts, use the Mexican Immigration Law, etc. Keep it coming. I not only want to put this professor on his butt but I want to keep pounding him into the ground until he pops out in China! Believe me, He needs it.
You cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state. - Milton Friedman
A couple of things you should point out is that illegals (aka citizens of other countries) are not afforded the civil or criminal protections of the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution ONLY grants rights to U.S. citizens.
Secondly, for the mexican woman who claims that the bill is racist, last time I checked “illegal” wasn’t a race. If a law enforcement officer has probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed (like illegal entry into the U.S.), the cop has authority to request identification from anyone. If a white person is sneeking around a house at night, the cops will insist on seeing his license in order to determine if the white person was there legally or there committing a crime. This is no different than checking the id of a mexican that is believed to be committing the crime of illegal entry.
Perhaps American hispanics should encourage mexicans to actually follow our laws and respect our country so that illegal immigration is no longer a problem for anyone.
Look to Milton -Open borders and the welfare state.
http://article.nationalreview.com/319184/look-to-milton/robert-rector
*Arizona taxpayers owed $1 billion from illegal immigration*
http://www.kvoa.com/news/arizona-taxpayers-owed-1-billion-from-illegal-immigration/
The cost of illegal immigration has exhausted the Arizona State Treasury. In order to pay for the federal government’s responsibility of securing our national borders and incarcerating individuals who enter the United States illegally and commit crimes, the state has incurred hundreds of millions of dollars of debt to pay these bills,” said Treasurer Dean Martin.
Sheriff Arpaio was on Geraldo’s show over the week-end and he said that they would not be using profiling, that they would simply be asking for valid ID, valid drivers’ licenses, proof of insurance, that kind of thing, when people are stopped for traffic violations or other violations of the law. It is nothing new. What is new is that if it is determined that the person is in this country illegally, they will be detained.
Obama himself can't touch it on his own. The Constitution does not endow the Executive Branch with the power to abrogate laws. It is an enforcement mechanism only. The Executive is charged with implementing the laws passed by Congress, as interpreted by the Courts.
The federal courts can rule if a state law is in conflict with federal law, and order appropriate remedies. Those may involve actions by federal officials of the Executive Branch.
So you need to press this guy on what he means by "the federal government". If he means Obama, then phooey on that. If he means the federal courts, then someone has to bring a case, and we'll see.
Sorry ! That 14th thing is diversionary and specious. What the opponents are essentially arguing against is the sovereignty issue and the right of a sovereign state yo erect and enforce borders. If you listen to their arguments as I’m doing now on a local talk show too many Americans feel we don’t have the right to protect our borders
Good luck on this. As the entire debate is going to be focused on race. You’ll be the racist bible toting gun lover, and the professor will be the tolerant, caring, modern example of American exceptionalism.
My advice would be to try to find a hispanic group that supports the Arizona law.
And you should also use the latest Rasmussen poll on this that shows over 70% of likely voters support the new law.
Even 51% of Democrats support the new law. So you can attach your argument to the overwhelming support the law has with Arizona voters, including a majority of Democrats.
Here’s the poll:
Which, of course, is insane.
The elitists around the country who are criticizing the AZ immigration law have no experience dealing with tremendous influx of illegals that pass through AZ. They don’t have the Mexican bus lines crashing on their freeways and killing people. They don’t have kidnappings and the drive by shootings in formerly quiet residential neighborhoods. The only illegals that the elitist critics have ever known and the hard working nannies, housekeepers, landscapers, etc, that they have hired and they really don’t want to lose their source of good cheap labor.
Actually, in CA, the illegal labor isn’t so cheap any more. A nanny was getting between $16 - $20 /hr in CA before the recession. I’m sure that has gone down some, but it’s pretty good money, considering they pay no taxes.
Sorry ! That 14th thing is diversionary and specious. What the opponents are essentially arguing against is the sovereignty issue and the right of a sovereign state to erect and enforce borders.
If you listen to their arguments as I’m doing now on a local talk show too many Americans unbelievably feel we don’t have the right to protect our borders. Which indicates we’ve come a long way from understanding what any country is about. Its like opening your house and letting anybody come in and do what they want.
It's Ok. I hope you are prepared now with all the good answers you received.
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