Posted on 08/20/2009 7:25:12 AM PDT by politicalmerc
Excuse the vanity but you guys MUST hear this. As you know if you have read any of my posts, I use to be an attorney. Well, my friendly local police department just made a HUGE MISTAKE and I can assure you they will pay for it. I post it here, not for sympathy but to show just how eroded our rights have become.
You said — It looks like a Fourth Amendment case: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
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I’ve been on both ends of a search warrant, at a couple of times in the past. One time I saw a neighbor (not necessarily the best neighbor to have, but a neighbor, nonetheless) steal something from my garage and take it into their house. I called the police (late at night on the weekend) and they came out but eventually said there was nothing they could do about it. However, they asked me some pointed questions as to whether it was subsequently removed from the house (it was big enough to see) and if anyone left. I said no. They told me that most likely there was nothing to do. But, they said they would station a few police cars around watching the premises to see if it was removed during the night.
What I didn’t know is that they woke up a judge at around 3 A.M. (on the weekend) got him to sign a search warrant based on my testimony, and then conducted a raid (with search warrant) at about 6 A.M. They convened the Oregon State Police, the Clackamas County Sheriff’s Department and the Lake Oswego City Police, all converging on the place (the house next door to mine) at 6 A.M. They called right at the moment when all cars rushed up to the house (told me to stay in and wait for them to come over), about 20 or so cars, everyone running out (including over to my house too, and blocking all driveways (and mine, too). It was like a movie. I could hear them banging on the doors and yelling that they had a search warrant.
Now..., the worst part for me, was that they found the item inside the house and they required my presence over there to positively identify it. I had to come over, with everyone in the house and identify it. Which I did when I saw it. And then they hauled one person off to jail. Hoo-boy!
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The other time was when I was on the receiving end of a search warrant. It was at a job that I was at, and I was “in charge” at the moment in an office and it was a locked and closed off office, but I could see the front door and entrance. And all of a sudden, about 12 Federal Agents came rushing in wearing those kinds of jackets which identify them, along with some locals, had their guns out, and all, and then came around to the door of the enclosed and locked office demanding to be let in. I stepped out, blocking the entryway, locked the door behind me and said, “Let me see the warrant.” I read it over trying to see if it was signed, had the right date on it, had the right location, what the parameters of the search were, and so on. And I was trying to do that as quickly as possible, because all the Federal Agents didn’t look to friendly to me, but they did wait for me to read it. Finally, it looked to be in order and I let them in... LOL...
I was trapped there for about five hours afterwards. Fortunately, I was not a principal of the company and only an employee, not having anything to do with the nature of the search warrant... :-)
So, I do know both sides of that kind of issue...
Thank you. You could have simply answered the question without copping the attitude. And I don't care about the details (in fact, "property crime" would have been adequate for my purposes).
If you re-read your original post, you will note that you did not mention what you were accused of, even to the point of whether it was a violent crime, narcotics, domestic, or property.
I didn't ask you to believe me, or to sympathize with me, but you certainly have NO BASIS to assume the worst about me.
Re-read your original post and re-read my response. I said nothing about not believing you nor did I assume anything one way or the other. Bottom line is that you did not say what you were accused of. And I gave two very possible scenarios for an accusation (not making an assumption that any accusastion was true). The first two (guns or drugs) could have easily come from a neighbor giving them a "tip." The second two (abuse / kidnapping) could happen from a nosy neighbor, as well. In the case of the first two possibilities, there would not be a situation of imminent risk to life. Therefore, I agreed with you wholeheartedly. In the case of the second two (abuse / kidnapping), there would be a possibility of imminent risk. I don't know about in your area of the country, but where I come from officers are given considerably more latitude when they believe there is an imminent risk to life.
Bottom line is that you went into excruciating detail on how your rights were abused; had you inserted one single word about what you were accused of, it would have been one hell of a lot clearer exactly how significant the abuse of your rights were.
So calm down, take an Ativan, and lose the attitude. Some cops are jerks, but the vast majority are just folks trying to protect you while being able to go home at the end of their shift.
You said — Expect more of this to happen once Obama’s Hitler youth/Gestapo comes into action... Kiss the 4th 5th and 6th amendments goodbye along with the 1st 2nd and the rest.
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This is where we have to (on Free Republic) start giving people lessons, tutorials, or advice on how to handle these types of things. And it actually should *start with* all FReepers understanding that even the *criminals* have these same rights. And also, FReepers should understand that even “Democrats” and “liberals” have those same rights, too... LOL... (I know... not a popular opinion... :-).... ).
And so, if these things are happening, and are going to happen more, then they each — and *all* — need to be made known, need to be defended, and we need to give *all citizens* training in how to deal with the police and authorities at all times...
I would recommend that *everyone* start with their “training” on these matters, with the video that I just posted about why *innocent people* need to *never talk to the police* (something that some FReepers don’t seem to understand...)...
See Post #124...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2320398/posts?page=124#124
In the spirit of the new administration, if any of them were women or of another race, accuse them of sexism and racism.
They busted into your house over alleged stolen money? That’s insane. (What they did to you is the way they treat homeschool families sometimes, too.)
Meanwhile, loved ones of mine (and I myself) have been threatened with physical harm and our property vandalized at times, and the police wouldn’t take the time to investigate or respond. And, when the police would question the “accused”, they’d tip-toe around the person and their rights and then tell us there’s nothing they could do.
Do the neighbors still live next to you?
However, Traveler, if politicalmerc is asking for help, ... or expects us to take his side ... it might be a good idea to tell us all the facts, the good, the bad, and the ugly. If he cannot, or wishes to keep certain confidences, OK. We're not his attorneys.
We live in an adversarial legal system, and when the time comes for PM's attorneys to tell his side of the story, it would be much better for them to have ALL the facts. He is going to say that his constitutional rights were violated. The other side is going to say they were not. Which is why I have reminded him to get good, experienced attorneys, and to do exactly as they say. In asking for adumbration, I am in no way intending to issue the police a free pass. On the face of it, it looks as if they were dead wrong.
However, let me remind you of your Dickens:
"The law? The Law, Sir, is a ass!"
Now come to think of it, the City's attorneys will be looking at this site, if they have half-a-brain, and we have all said too much. This belongs in court. Not in public.
Prosecuting attorneys -- who are sworn to uphold the law, not their LEOs -- will ALWAYS back the LEO. Every. Single. Time.
Hi Quix, you were saying — However, Those days are over . . . at least until Armageddon is past.
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I’m still in favor of “holding their feet to the fire” — as long as there are laws on the books that specify the rights that citizens (and/or Christians, in the instances where that may apply, too...) have in this country.
So, if “in practice” authorities and officials and others (like the police) violate rights, then they need to be held accountable in any way possible. Now..., in this kind of matter, I’m talking — insofar as — the *specific laws* are “on the books” and there is something to “go after” on it.
I do realize that not all kinds of things are covered, and there are some gray areas and some things are not so clear cut. But, if one lets them slide on the *really obvious things* (like these common civil rights) then all sorts of other things are much easier to let slide, too.
Mind you, I’m not talking about “political matters” here, which are matters of choice and who one elects and the policies of the country, and whether Democrats are in office or Republicans are in office — but rather — the “hard and fast” laws on the books regarding certain things that the authorities can and cannot do... no matter whether one is a Democrat or a Republican or who they are...
You said — However, Traveler, if politicalmerc is asking for help, ... or expects us to take his side ... it might be a good idea to tell us all the facts, the good, the bad, and the ugly. If he cannot, or wishes to keep certain confidences, OK. We’re not his attorneys.
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You’ll note that I’ve already asked if someone can provide the police report, which should be public information. Also I would like to see a “report” in the news, local newspapers about it — again “public information”. That kind of “information” doesn’t compromise the attorney/client privilege or keeping certain things “confidential” until trial. There is certain information that is going to be “confirmed” and is public.
I would like to see that... for further information...
Cooperating with the police is not a good idea it can land you jail, just ask Scooter Libbey.
At least they had a warrant... ;)
You asked — Do the neighbors still live next to you?
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No, that was long ago, and in Lake Oswego, Oregon. Right now, there’s a brand new Fire Station on the premises (my older house and the neighbor’s house having been torn down)... :-) My place was on the back side of the current Fire Station parking lot in Lake Oswego.
I’m not in Oregon now, actually, but in the great State of Oklahoma, and in Tulsa, the Buckle of the Bible Belt... :-)
The family was sort of known by the local police, was sort of a criminal element. They left me alone, though. However, the mother did come over afterwards and asked me to drop the charges, but I wouldn’t do it. I understand that the judge gave the “boy” (about 18 or 19 I think) the chance to have things dropped if he joined the military, which he did...). And, at that point, I didn’t care, because I figured the judicial system could take care of it. I was never called in to testify or anything, so the “deal” was worked out before it ever went to trial.
While I appreciate your follow-up post, your answer is similar to that of the Lt. I made my charge to.
Yes I could have simply answered the question. However, in my original post I made it pretty clear that I didn't want to give the details out for personal reasons (I obviously have a pretty rough enemy out there).
So while I could have simply spilled my guts and told you details I really wasn't interested in sharing, you too could have taken the hint and not asked me a question I wasn't interested in answering.
I "caught" an attitude because you immediately took the conversation to a place "assaulted/molested wife or children" to a place where I was pretty much FORCED to let you invade my privacy or to allow the horrible question to linger. (Did he hide the real ugly truth that he is an abuser or molester?) I reacted to your immediate race to the lowest common denominator. You could have just taking my post at face value, believed it or not believed it as I prompted, and NOT used an inflammatory suggestion to forcibly invade my privacy.
Does that make any sense?
You are not going to believe this....
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Oh, I know EXACTLY who to beat for that.
Juat curious, was it politically motivated???
It’s Standard Operating Procedure. It’s just that it usually happens to other people.
Can you name them in your lawsuit?
Seems only fair.
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