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1 posted on 12/30/2004 11:20:22 AM PST by Constitutionalist Conservative
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
I don't know where the author received his information that Christians claimed Franklin as their own. It is simply not true. Christians have always recognized Franklin was one of two Deists.
2 posted on 12/30/2004 11:23:54 AM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
publick ??? Ben needs to go back to school! (just kidding)
3 posted on 12/30/2004 11:30:35 AM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
The title is grossly unjustified by the single short quote from Ben Franklin. Also, the snotty assumption that any reference to religion automatically meant "Christian" is historically absurd.

The Treasurer for the US during the Revolution was Robert Morris. He was one of those who pledged is "life, property and sacred honor" to the cause. He saved the nation, financially. He died broke. He was also Jewish, as were a significant number of the Founders.

That Franklin sought to identify the common characteristics of all the world's religions does not paint him as a deist. You probably claim Jefferson as a deist. He was a Christian. Thomas Paine was, at the end of his life, a deist. Odds are, you claim him as an atheist, as many atheist websites today do.

Quit trying to leech the religion out of the nation's history and leaders as a set-up for leeching it out of modern politics and society. Neither can be done without falsifying the facts. You wouldn't want to do that, now would you?

Congressman Billybob

Click for latest, "A Tale of Two Grinches, US and UN"

6 posted on 12/30/2004 11:46:19 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
(The Founders considered “natural law” as a synonym for divine law)

[T]he laws of nature . . . of course presupposes the existence of a God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government.

John Quincy Adams

“We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded."

- President James Madison

[The] law established by the Creator, which has existed from the beginning, extends over the whole globe, is everywhere and at all times binding upon mankind. . . . [This] is the law of God by which He makes His way known to man and is paramount to all human control.

Rufus King, Signer of the Constitution, Framer of the Bill of Rights

"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free...."

Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787 John Adams

This is a great resource:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=41

7 posted on 12/30/2004 11:57:06 AM PST by MamaTexan (I am not a 'legal entity')
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative

Political Correctness dictates that we treat all perverts as saints and we treat all religious people as leopards.


9 posted on 12/30/2004 12:13:08 PM PST by Always Right
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative

"We're now in the midst of terrible experiment to see what effect the purging of religion from the public square has on the well ordering and well-being of society."

I'm not sure what you mean. I'll agree that things in this country are in bad shape, but I don't see how it can reasonably be blamed on religion. Is religion in America in any tangible danger? Is it (or will it be) banned/suppressed by the government in ways characteristic of an oppressive communist regime, for example? No, of course not. I think our real problem is that we've purged RATIONAL DISCOURSE from the public square. On both sides, our national discourse is more emotional and less substantive than ever. Historically, this situation left unchecked invariably leads to a dopey ideological citizenry, easily led to the evil extremes on both the Left (communism) and the Right (fascism).


10 posted on 12/30/2004 12:26:40 PM PST by lastfreeamerican
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