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The Design Inference Game
03/03/03 | Moi

Posted on 03/03/2003 8:27:25 AM PST by general_re

I thought a new thread was a good idea, and here seems to be a good place to put it, so as not to clutter up "News". The only topic available was "heated discussion", though. ;)

If any clarification about the pictures is needed, just say so, and I will try to at least highlight the part that I am interested in for you. Remember that I'm interested in the objects or structures or artifacts being represented, so don't be thrown off if the illustrations seem abstract.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dembski; designinference; evolution; intelligentdesign
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To: balrog666
Don't take my comments to be insulting or derisive; it's just that I see no basis for meaningful discussion.

Well I don't take offense, balrog666, not at all. Just don't bolt for the door yet, okay?

Stick around here a little bit longer please. Unless you have mastered the fine art of self-insulation, such that all you are willing to go on is what you aready know, or think you know.

My happiness consists in you deciding that that is not a tenable strategy in the long run.

In any case, I'm glad to know ya, balrog666.

161 posted on 03/06/2003 5:37:04 PM PST by betty boop
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To: atlaw
What do we "know" that forms the basis for the design inference? ~ atlaw Woody.
162 posted on 03/06/2003 6:05:22 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: betty boop
I noticed that you never responded to my assertion that we do not live in a four-dimensional universe. Do you agree, disagree, or are you simply stumped by the proof I offered?
163 posted on 03/06/2003 6:11:22 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
You worship an imagined god who throws righteous folks into the Lake of Fire, and you want a serious reply to your question?

Are you for real?

164 posted on 03/06/2003 6:35:33 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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To: CCWoody
I noticed that you never responded to my assertion that we do not live in a four-dimensional universe. Do you agree, disagree, or are you simply stumped by the proof I offered?

CCWoody, in truth I did not catch your reference at all. I was using the "four-dimensional picture" in the more-or-less conventional, post-Einsteinian sense; which holds that human beings (and the rest of all creation) inhabit three dimensions of space plus one of time equals four dimensions.

You may be taking a different tack on this question. In which case, I would be more than glad to be enlightened by you. So please do feel free to write again.

165 posted on 03/06/2003 6:41:27 PM PST by betty boop
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To: PatrickHenry
re: #158.... "Polyester"

Clearly designed..... but not by anything intelligent.

;-)

166 posted on 03/06/2003 7:01:54 PM PST by longshadow
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To: cornelis
Without history the game is over.

IMHO, that's a fact, cornelis. Without history -- cultural and personal -- we'd have no way of knowing who we are, or where we are.

That being the case, it is hardly surprising that the engines of progressive change -- historically -- have seen fit to propound any number of systems that depend on "the end of history" in order to make their case. To name names, Hegel, Nietzsche, Marx, Gramsci, and (to bring the matter up to date) Francis Fukuyama (et al.) have seemingly tried to mount their "bright ideas" of the new human civilizational order on the destruction of historical sense -- cultural and personal.

In both senses -- cultural and personal -- this exercise to my mind is akin to signing up for a full frontal lobotomy. The present makes no sense -- on either the global or personal level -- without reference to a larger context.

The personal aspect of this problem is of acute interest to me. History plays a major role (IMHO) in the development of personality. Present experience has no context absent reference to what we know of our past experience. Which can be recovered via the reliable technique of anamnesis -- recollection of memory.

Human memory is famous for its selectivity. However, a case can be made that the memory we can readily dredge up is probably the memory that helps us understand who we are as individual persons, and the kinds of contexts in which we try to find our way in existence. Anamnesis is a great well of truthful experience upon which we can draw, at will. The results that such extraordinarily luminous thinkers as Plato and Voegelin were able to achieve via the anamnetic route speak for themselves.

167 posted on 03/06/2003 7:02:08 PM PST by betty boop
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To: Senator Pardek; the_doc; Diamond
Evidently, it is not beyond you Papists to freely violate the 9th Commandment in the interests of making asses out of yourselves. Though, I'm not certain, beyond my simply being on this thread, why you would jump on me like this. Of course, this is the SBR. Perhaps this is the place where you take out all of your frustrations from being regularly spanked by us Calvinists.

Why don't you hang around while I go and collect some information to give to betty boop about this being an inverse cubed universe. You might have yet another opportunity to flame me for no apparent reason.

Sadly, this truism has struck again:

1 riot, 1 Ranger
1 Calvinist, 1 riot.
168 posted on 03/06/2003 7:47:43 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: betty boop
Thank you so very much for your excellent post!

For some strange reason well beyond my ken, I am certain that God loves us humans -- His "sons". As improbable as that might sound. Perhaps a viable civilizational basis can be formed around this proposition. After the impending war is over, that is. If ever.

That will be the case - sometime, down the road. It is a prophecy.

Hugs!!!

169 posted on 03/06/2003 7:57:53 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Senator Pardek; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; CCWoody
You worship an imagined god who throws righteous folks into the Lake of Fire, and you want a serious reply to your question?

There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE.

This verse about the state of fallen sinners is in BOTH Testaments. See if you can find it.

170 posted on 03/06/2003 7:58:32 PM PST by the_doc
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To: the_doc
Thank you so much for your post! Indeed, the fallen state of sinners appears throughout the Word.
171 posted on 03/06/2003 8:15:58 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: the_doc
It looks like we just got a lesson in Depravity on this thread. Over the past week, I seem to have brought out the "best" in a lot of people. If this keeps up, my feelings might get hurt.

Though, I must confess, I may have made a mistake about the good senator being RC. I'll let him answer and then decide if I need to make a correction.

172 posted on 03/06/2003 8:29:21 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: general_re; PatrickHenry
Your latest pic looks like my neighbor's patio. Ugly! (And designed by an idiot.)

Well, general, my first impression was that it might be a representation of part of your bathroom remodeling project. But then I wondered why you would make your bathroom floor look like a patio.

PatrickHenry and I have both detected the apparent independent pattern. We did so independently.

Running #4 through the filter, crudely, without any mathematical calculations, it comes out as a product of intelligent agency.

There is contingency. The configuration of the "tiles" is irreducible to the natural laws governing the motion and placement of "tiles". The relative straightness of the vertical lines in comparison to the horizontal lines between the "tiles" is highly improbable, ie. too uniform to be attributed to chance, indicating a very low probability of occuring by chance. Finally, the independently given pattern match is PatrickHenry's neighbor's patio.

Designed.

Cordially,

173 posted on 03/07/2003 7:24:13 AM PST by Diamond
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To: CCWoody; betty boop
Er, I wish to comment on your remark in post 121 to betty boop. You said:

Well, we live in a just so inverse cubed not an inverse quad universe. Think about that.

I have thought about it. Force (e.g. electromagnetic, gravity, strong and weak atomic) vary with the inverse of the square of the distance (F=1/d^2) If there were four spatial dimension objects, they would vary with the inverse of the cube of the distance (F=1/d^3) which basically means that matter could not form!

I believe this is why super string theory asserts compactification of the extra dimensions. I do not however believe compactification is necessarily required: 5D Space-Time-Matter Consortium

Because the accelerating universe suggests a fluctuating (albeit over huge time intervals) ratio between dark energy and dark matter (cosmological constant (pdf)) - which significantly alters our concept of the age of the universe - I have become quite interested in yet another theory, the ekpyrotic model.

IMHO, the real quandary is why the dark energy we deduce from observation (astronomy) is not manifest in quantum mechanics!

174 posted on 03/07/2003 7:33:21 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: general_re
Of course, if it's something like a turtle's back, then my answer is obviously incorrect for purposes of this test.

Cordially,

175 posted on 03/07/2003 7:45:31 AM PST by Diamond
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To: Diamond
Of course, if it's something like a turtle's back ...

It's the latest in bathroom design, called "turtle's back" pattern. Very stylish. And that yellow color can hide a multitude of sins, if you know what I mean.

176 posted on 03/07/2003 9:27:21 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas)
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To: Diamond
It looks like the "skin" of a plant to me. But, hey, I'm just lurking with the probability of attracting random attacks.
177 posted on 03/07/2003 10:04:15 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: PatrickHenry
It's the latest in bathroom design, called "turtle's back" pattern.

Shhhh! DON'T say this outloud. My wife will hear it and then I'll find myself remodeling the bathroom.

Cordially,

178 posted on 03/07/2003 10:18:53 AM PST by Diamond
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To: Diamond
My wife will hear it and then I'll find myself remodeling the bathroom.

You weren't doing anything for the next few weekends, were you? ;)

#5

Composed largely of various oxides of silicon, aluminum, iron...

179 posted on 03/07/2003 11:33:14 AM PST by general_re ("Would you like to swing on a star? Carry moonbeams home in a jar..." :^))
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To: general_re
I know, I know!! "It's turtles all the way down."
180 posted on 03/07/2003 11:34:57 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas)
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