Evolution Disclaimer Supported

The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

[Condorman]

From longshadow's #3903:

My father, that tall man over there, always votes Republican
Appositive phrase: that tall man over there

Her name, Arabella, was also her mother’s name
Appositive phrase: Arabella

From this dippy argument:

Evolution, the sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today, is the central organizing principle of the historical sciences...
Appositive phrase: the sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today

The structure of all three sentences is essentially identical. How you managed to extract "adjective phrase" is beyond me.

[tpaine]

The clear original intent of the first clause is to prevent government from passing laws that favor religions, & all the 'establishments' of religion.

Emphasis mine. This is key. Discussion of religious beliefs, even the practice of religious precepts in schools, government, or any other public place, if not mandated by law, is within the intent of the first clause.

If it were constitutional to allow the practice of "discussions of religious beliefs, even the practice of religious precepts in [public] schools, government [meetings] , or any other public [sponsored] places, [& events]";
-- equal treatment would be demanded by all sects, creeds, & factions. Public meetings, events, schools, etc, would soon be a pandemonium of competition to be heard. Every zealot in town would line up, insisting to be heard at the bully public pulpit.

Nope, it's best we keep religion & politics separated.

[SunnyUsa]

"What are you doing browsing in The Smokey Backroom, anyway?"

hahaha I'm caught!

I must admit I NEVER look in this smokey secret place but I got curious today! (lol)

When I saw this thread I was impressed, you all have been very busy while the REST of us have been watching the world for you! (ha)

[PatrickHenry]

What will be the prize for hitting post 4000?

[SunnyUsa]

"Tribune7, an unusually dense poster on the subject of grammar..."

Aren't these fightin words? ;)

You guys have managed to fight about EVERYTHING on this thread apparently! lol

[PatrickHenry]

There's a hot rumor going around that Hillary is a creationist.

[SunnyUsa]

hitlary prefers to be called MRS bill clinton

[VadeRetro]

I quit caring much after the Irsays took my once-legendary Colts out of Baltimore in the early 80s. Just not the same. Now Johnny U is even gone. (Sob!)

[f.Christian]

jr...

At this rate we'll top 4000 posts by this evening.

fC...

To: VadeRetro

The light at the end of the evo tunnel is the oncoming train!


40 posted on 12/11/2002 11:01 AM PST by f.Christian

[edsheppa]

It's not, teaching is [primary].

That's not right either - learning is primary.

[viaveritasvita]

"(God was my co-pilot, but we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat him.)"

Had you made Him your pilot, you either wouldn't have crashed into a mountain or you would have understood the reason for the crash, recovered, learned how to avoid crashing in the future, and would never have had to worry about nourishment ever again.

Speaking from one who once made God my co-pilot, crashed into a mountain, but, instead of "eating God" (sick!), I picked up the pieces and re-configured.

"Every worldview is a proposed map of reality, a guide to navigating in the world. One effective test of any truth claim, therefore, is to ask whether we can live by it. If you follow a map but still find yourself splashing into rivers or crashing off cliffs, you can be quite sure something is wrong with the map. By the same token, if you live according to a certain worldview but keep bumping up against reality in painful ways, you can be sure something is wrong with the worldview. It fails to reflect reality accurately." Colson & Pearcey "How Now Shall We Live?"

[PatrickHenry]

I may have to bail out for the evening before we reach 4000.

[longshadow]

So what exactly does Dawkins mean when he says "Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design?"

Asked and answered a couple days ago. You can look it up; it's in your "replies" queue. Suffice to say, it isn't what YOU think he means.

And when did he join the creationist conspiracy?

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Now the grammar:

Apositive: A word, phrase, or clause that has the same referent and the same or a similar grammatical function as a preceding word or phrase

That's a good definition of apositive. Keep it in mind as I continue.

The phrase

"Evolution, the sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today, is the central organizing principle of the historical sciences -- biology, geology, and cosmology"

"Evolution" is the noun. A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea

"the sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today" is an adjective clause. This is a clause which acts as an adjective. An adjective modifies a noun or a pronoun by describing, identifying, or quantifying words

No. It is not an adjective clause. Clauses have predicates, and that has no predicate being acted upon by "the sequence of events." I don't have my grammar text with me, but I think the correct term for it is a "noun phrase" (with a somewhat complex prepositional expression appended to it, starting with the words "by which...".)

Now does an adjective and a noun have the same grammatical function?

==========================================

I'll cut straight to the chase. Do you agree that a sentence has to have a subject? Do you further agree that adjectives aren't suitable as subjects?

Okay. According to you, the expression "the sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today" is an adjective clause, and you further state it doesn't have the same grammatical function as a noun, and hence, it isn't an appositive in the original sentence. Right?

Remove the noun "evolution" from the sentence. What do you get?

According to you, we should have a subject-less "sentence." But look:

"Evolution, the sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today, is the central organizing principle of the historical sciences -- biology, geology, and cosmology"

"The sequence of events by which the world came to be as we see it today is the central organizing principle of the historical sciences -- biology, geology, and cosmology." [the second comma is removed because by removing the noun to which the appositive refers, we eliminate the appositive and it now TAKES THE SAME GRAMMATICAL PLACE AND FUNCTION AS THE NOUN TO WHICH IT REFERRED.] Amazing; it's a complete sentence, with BOTH a subject, verb, and object! How could that be? Perhaps because the expression "the sequence of events...." is a NOUN PHRASE, and this is can be used in the same grammatical function, as in:

".... and [has] the same or a similar grammatical function as a preceding word or phrase"

as you quoted from the definition at the top of your response to me.

It's an APPOSITIVE.

appositive: A noun or noun phrase that is placed next to another to help explain it.

[viaveritasvita]

"Sometimes when I read f.Christian's posts, I ponder that his expressions carry a lot of feeling that I might understand better if it were music instead of words."

I think of poetry.

[Nebullis]

Every zealot in town would line up, insisting to be heard at the bully public pulpit.

That's where the second clause comes in.

Congress shall make no law ...prohibiting the free exercise therof [religion]...

That's the freedom this nation was founded on.

[viaveritasvita]

"Too many charismatic bullies...Science has bred its share of bullies...bullies who preach falsehoods that are subject to verification are, in the long run, less dangerous."

Christians are subject to verification against falsehoods, too. Bullies preaching falsehoods of any sort are dangerous. Interesting some think scientific bullies are less dangerous than Christian bullies. Understanding that "bully" may be wrongly applied to anyone trying to fulfill the great commission, I would question the beliefs of the Christian. Bereans are perfect example of "testing the spirits" and of verifying Christian preaching.

[Nebullis]

...it's best we keep religion & politics separated.

It sounds good, but I really wonder if this is practical. Politics is, for many people, informed by their religion. How do you tease that religion out of their politics?

[Nebullis]

Tag line public prayer...reminds me of certain pharisees.

It also reminds me of my childhood when one of my brothers said grace at the dinner table "...and please, dear God, let my sister not be such a bitch."

[viaveritasvita]

Thank you for this post.

[tpaine]

My boy, you are entirely free to exercise your religion, -- but not at the public HS football game, using the loudspeaker system.

In fact, if you even stand next to me at that same game, and insist upon yelling in my ear about 'being saved', for instance, - you may get more than a sore throat.
IE - Your freedom ends at my 'space', - get the concept?