[zoyd]

You can't even equate the two.

I'll agree that the two are very different, but it still doesn't get rid of the fact that we're subjecting male babies in the U.S. of A. to undergo penile surgery literally hours or days after their birth FOR NO GOOD REASON.

"Oh, they can't feel it. Oh, it's a cleanliness issue."

What I find the most odd about it is the implication that GOD somehow screwed up when designing the male penis. Everything else on the body seems to have been 'created' just fine, but those penises... God must have screwed up, so we gotta run in there with knives to cut away at male baby penises. It's twisted.

BTW, I'm not religious in the least, but I'll firmly say that I think the male penis has 'evolved' or was 'created' just fine, thank you very much.

[bluecollarman]

"I think the male penis has 'evolved' or was 'created' just fine, thank you very much."

Look, don't have strong feelings one way or another. My wife is a nurse and she has seen some problems with men that don't take care of their youknowhats. She wanted all of ours to get cut because of that and adhesions. I can't say that I ever recall missing mine.

To each his own I say. I don't think it's going to keep you out of heaven. My point is that it's not the same as mutilating a female.

[nopardons]

You evidently have NO idea what you are talking about. It wasn't that " GOD screwed up "; it was a pack and a coveninent WITH GOD . It was also, I suspsect an easy way of tellng just who was who, rather easily, for the Ancient Hebrews.

For Jewish people, a Bris takes place 8 days after birth, I think. They do have the baby suck on a towel ( or something ) dipped in wine. It is a religious sacriment ; for you to call it derrogatory names is rather pathetic and silly and disrespectful.

Male circumcision doesn't harm men . Female Pharoonic circumcision harm and brualizes females. Big difference , dear.

[kaylar]

My mom was a nurse, and she once told me how horrified she was (back in the 1960s) to see the little boys screaming in agony from the pain of circumcision. She told the doctors how she felt, and they laughed at her, telling her airily that "everyone knows babies' nerve systems are too primitive and undeveloped to feel pain at that age. It's just fear." Thankfully, by the 1980s it was learned that a baby's nervous system is every bit as sensitive to pain as older children, and they now use anesthesia. But how can doctors have been so blinded to the obvious truth of baby pain, simply by dogma, when their own eyes and ears should have shown them the truth?

[ppaul]

Hey Zoyd!

You have any of your own children? Ever seen a baby boy get circumsised? It's no big deal. The people I see get their shorts in a knot over male circumcision are folks who don't have sons. And, I've never met a man who is circumcisied who will say that he does not achieve orgasm because of it. But a woman with her clit cut off? That's a different story entirely.

[PJ-Comix]

What I find the most odd about it is the implication that GOD somehow screwed up when designing the male penis.

Um.... So what is the purpose of tonsils?

[Jefferson Adams]

What I find the most odd about it is the implication that GOD somehow screwed up when designing the male penis.

Ummmm, it was God Who told the Jews to circumcise their male infants :)

I dunno why He did it that way, but not only does it provide for less disease for men in later life, it also lowers the rate of disease for women.

So it's a good thing. I don't want MY foreskin back < g >

[Terriergal]

What I find the most odd about it is the implication that GOD somehow screwed up

I don't see that implication at all. He doesn't command non-jews to be circumcised. What he commanded them to do was for a mark of their belonging to him and being set apart by him. Much like piercing an ear was done to slaves that wanted to stay with their masters because they loved their masters and vice versa.

[joathome]

In fact, I have read of a few young men who are coming of age, and who were NOT circumcised, and are choosing to undergo circumcision.

Seems that their sexual partners aren't interested in oral sex. Not as clean.

The topic of circumcision regularly comes up on another message board I frequent, and it's been interesting reading the pros and cons.

[glory]

zoyd, on this point I agree with you. We are religious btw(Christians) and we did not circ our son(and won't any future sons). I think in the US, most adult men just don't have any examples of uncirced men to reference about real life uncut. My adult brother was not circed so I had a point of reference to ask. We are content with this decision(and yes, read all the research out there and can't find anything OVERWHELMINGLY compelling to circ a male child)