Posted on 08/11/2012 4:42:48 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
Except for his unfortunate go along to get along support of TARP, bailouts, stimulus spending and the increased credit limit, etc, Ryan is a pretty good choice. Probably the best choice of the RINOS that were on Romney's short list. I support Ryan for the vice presidency. Wish he were at the top of the ticket, though.
But I still cannot and will not support the grand father of ObamaCare. Romney still loves and brags about his bastard brainchild, RomneyCare, even today when he knows what an anti-liberty socialist POS it is.
And the fact that he advocated that abortion should be safe and legal in America for over three decades of his adult lifetime and even advocated that Roe v Wade should be supported and sustained as settled law precludes any consideration whatsoever by this pro-life Christian for Myth Romney for the presidency.
And the fact that he boasted that he would be better for "gay rights" than Ted Kennedy, and proved it just increases my resistance.
That, and his penchant for gun control, his continuing support for global warming, gays in the scouts, gays in the military, and his record of appointing liberal judges makes it all but impossible for me to support him.
Lastly, we're having a bit of changeover on our moderator staff. At least two moderators resigned this afternoon after I flatly refused to rein in a so-called anti-Mormon "bigot" on FR. Well, if being in opposition to false prophets and false prophecy makes a Christian believer a bigot, then I guess I'm a bigot. I've posted before that I flat do not believe that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God. Nor do I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. The Christian bible warns us to be weary of false prophets and that I am. Romney being the presumptive Republican nominee does not change that fact.
Or a 15 year old who refuses to answer a simple question.
This thread now belongs over in the Religion forum.
Let’s get back to politics please.
We will soon be debating how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
There is a very good reason why the Founders did not allow a religious test for holding national office.
This thread is an excellent example of their wisdom.
Before good friendships get torn asunder and even more accusations of lying, deceit,overall stupidity and lack of principle start flying all over the place, please refrain from personal attacks and get back to the political issues at hand.
The enemy is Obama, not our fellow Freepers.
His LIES just start compounding around the 4 minute mark!!!
Not CHRISTIAN???
I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from himthat are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to theChristian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.And so, and so in that sense — I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with — I've been invitedto the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'
You know, Kevaod, I think on this subject the way you frame things are reasonable...and you've done more than most posters to delineate qualifiers and caveats.
So I understand your point that you think it might be a bit "ticky-tack" to provide a "color" qualifier "each time we say anything."
That indeed would be a valid point -- IF we had posters beside yourself that EVER bothered to to even mention that indeed these qualifiers that you and I have discussed actually exist!
I would imagine that if you swept thru the THOUSANDS of "ABO" references on FR over the past four months, that the overwhelming "sweep" of comments either assume or imply that "ABO" = ALL voters in ALL states MUST vote Romney. In fact, it's oft' been communicated that no exceptions are to be tolerated for that mindset.
And the other comments that accompany these thoughts -- when challenged -- back this up. We consistently see from posters the notion that Virgil Goode or Tom Hoefling "can't win"...yet that same acknowledgement is almost NEVER offered to Romney's chances in blue states. That gets routinely ignored.
The bottom line here is that people want to be pragmatists. Utilitarians. Political relativists. That's where their anti-Obamaism has led to their desperation.
Well, if they are going to don that political philosophy, then they can't get riled up when that same political philosophy is used to tell conservatives that they SHOULD vote ABOAR in the blue states...ABOAR = Anybody But Obama and Romney. (And that, more quietly, ABOAR also applies to red states).
The very fact that there is a LACK of an ABOAR movement on FR displays that people are more pro-Romney than they are anti-RINO. And that will be the eventual death knell of the GoP, because there will no longer be a "home" for conservatives.
If I wanted to constantly choose 'tween liberal POTUSes, why would I EVER give a dime to the GoP?
If the RINOs give us somebody to the left of LBJ, why would be want to stay Republicans?
Kevao (sorry for the typo of your name in last post)
No; Jeff; what galls me is that you NEVER say anything MORMON in your monologs.
You ramble on and on using 'christ' and 'jesus' and 'god' and NEVER reply to the unigue MORMON teachings about these that are SO different from what CHRISTIAINITY teaches.
I'm sorry; but your own past leaders have labled you guys non-Christian and now your CURRENT leaders want to get in the ball game. (Why am I reminded of BYU and football?)
Anti-christian?
You MORMONs?
Surely NOT!!
But YOUR 'christ' canNOT 'save' a murderer; only his (her) own blood will be sufficient for that.
LDS doctrines are the albatross around your necks. Wear it proudly and quit whining.
It’s a well known fact that Romney lies like a rug. Trying to find out why. Was he taught to lie by the LDS when he was young? Does he in turn teach others to lie? Evading the truth is the same as lying.
Is this something MORMONism has taught you?
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
The founding fathers never said anything about limiting people talking about religion and politics together.
That is your creation.
The "test" applies only to the govt...and candidates...doesn't "touch" voters...who can consider moral or immoral character issues and worldviews which are rooted in faith issues.
To my knowledge he is in no way an official spokesmen for the Church.
Jim, in my service to the Church right now, I teach 10 year olds. Every Sunday in what we call our Primary (a Sunday School type activity for younger kids).
Here's the type of thing I teach them each week. We are teaching them a song right now, and I tell them they should keep the words of such songs in their minds as they go through life...to help them as they face adversity and temptation. The Song is called, "I am trying to be like Jesus," and it goes like this:
I am trying to be like JesusIt has a really nice tune and I find myself humming it and thinking the words as I go through life's walk myself. As chidlren are taught such things, and to come unto Christ, and as they see it in the adults around them, a large majority of them choose Christ at an early age and try to live accordingly, and that benefits all of society just as it does in any Christian Church.
"I.m trying to be like Jesus,
I'm following in his way.
I'm trying to live as He did,
In all that I do and say."
"Sometimes I am tempted to make the wrong choice,
Buth then the Spirit whisperss in a still small voice, saying,
"Love one another as Juses loved you.,br> Try to show kindness in all that you do.
"Be gentle and loving in deed and in thought,
For these are thge things Jesus taught."
That's what is taught to LDS children in tens of thousands of Chapel's each week, Jim.
There are those with axes to grind against the LDS faith, who want to try and make the faith out to be some retrobate religion like radical of Islamicism or something.
It simply is not so. We speak of Christ, we teach of christ, we bring up our children to accept and follow Christ.
Do we interpret some things (like the Trinity and Godhead, or the life hereafter and what life in God's Kingdom will be like( differently than other Christians?
Yes.
But that does not take away from or change the essential doctrine that Jesus Christ, born of Mary and died on the Cross for all of us, and raised the third day, is Savior and King and our only path to salvation.
Those fundamental values and teachings, and the lifestyle and values they instill in the people hearing and living them, are the very things that keep America free. And practised by most Christian denominations, they are the vision of our founders in producing a people who do not need or want a large overbearing government telling them how to live. They govern themselves.
Hope that helps.
Jim, does it really make a difference at this point?
All politicians lie. I am sure Paul Ryan has lied. Maybe even Sarah Palin, although that would break my heart.
Why? They are all sinners, including you and me.
Please step back and see where this is heading. It is not to a good place.
You’re a rock, man, and no one can take that away from you.
But this thread is no longer about the politics. It is getting way too personal, and for no good reason. There are frequent posters on this thread that are making FR look like a fruitcake factory.
I love FR too much not to speak up.
I hope you undertsand.
True.
Yet Romney has solidly been an "enemy" of the pre-born.
(That can't be swept under the rug)
And Romney is a Mormon-confessed "rival" of THE God -- claiming to be a "god in embryo."
People who abhor idolatry don't go 'round providing platforms for idolaters and providing them with ways to be elevated as idolaters.
Your notion of "religion" is seemingly quite compartmentalized. Yet if God judges cultures, He doesn't only "judge" the religious but the entire cultural apparatus. Yes, the apostle Peter prophesied that "judgment begins with the household of God"...but be sure...it won't end there.
You need to read my post again. You have ascribed words that are not there. I created no such thing as what you implied.
Unfortunately, that is your stock in trade.
Jeff, I well remember my days as a small LDS girl trying to be like Jesus (even all the time knowing that as a female there was no way to do so). I was taught that Christ was a great example to us - our older spirit brother - something we all could aspire to being.
I wasn’t until I recognized that I will NEVER be like Christ - that I am a sinner - and only through his sacrifice will I ever be saved from my sins.
Salvation means that I no longer think I CAN or EVER will be like Christ. He is the highest being, he created me, he was separated from me by my human sinful nature, and because of His great love for me, He has enveloped me in His loving arms and given me access to His kingdom. I can never repay Him or earn His approval. I can only ask Him to forgive me and accept His Grace.
It is finished. I am His.
Look at the context, you weren’t suddenly blurting out something irrelevant about the constitution, you were trying to tell us to shut-up, and to quit mixing religion with politics in our discussion.
The Founders did not want a religious test to be about a run for office, not once did they ever say an individual could not use a religious test.
For ansel12 and Kevmo and Larry, I am more than willing to state that in light of Jim's direct denial, that I was apparently mistaken and take back the statement and will not maks that assertion again.
There was not then, and is not now, any lie, or attemnpt to mislead anyone.
BTW, ansel12, Fred Thompson dropped out fairly early in 2008...lots was said and discussed on these boards afterwards all the way up until the time that McCain won the nomination. So give you juvenile, grade school yard tactics a rest. No one lied and I will not respond to your temper tantrum demands to do so for lieing. I will say that in ligth of Jim's statement that I was mistaken and apologize for that.
Do we interpret some things (like the Trinity and Godhead, or the life hereafter and what life in God’s Kingdom will be like( differently than other Christians? Yes. But that does not take away from or change the essential doctrine ....
***I beg to differ. The deity of Christ is an essential doctrine. That’s the one I choose to hang my hat on, because Jesus died for claiming to be equal with God. So it must be important.
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