Posted on 08/01/2012 11:18:33 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland
The “Mal-Val” youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named “Val” into an image of Obama, he insinuates that “Val” is Obama’s mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.
In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, “Val,” in Polarik’s Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obama’s mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.
Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?
Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.
For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as “researchers” has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obama’s mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!
Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.
For years the “researchers” had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barry’s mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the “researchers” claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the “researchers” appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been “protecting.” They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.
The “researchers” claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldn’t revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?
In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barry’s mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the “researchers” have totally failed to refute.
Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obama’s mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.
ok...so what is SAD doing in New York with a baby when she’s supposed to be going to the U of WA? She can’t be in two places at once...UNLESS she’s in New York and Anna Obama is in Seattle.
Mary said she babysat when her own daughter, who was born in July 1959, was 18 months old, remember?
And when she was asked about that at another interview, she then said the child was 7 months old.
She had to correct herself, she didn’t know anything about Stanley Ann Dunham and a baby when she was interviewed in Alaska in September 2008.
She couldn’t let it stand that she babysat for the woman they were trying to tell her was Stanley Ann who would have needed to conceive before she left high school, where-ever that may have been and before she ever met the kenyan if she did...(before 1970)
And at the next interview, her ‘best recollection’ was that he was 7 months old in February or March 1962, because that fit with the birthday!
And each time she opened her mouth she dug the hole deeper.
So there you have SAD in New York with zero, we don’t know exactly when the photograph was taken because we don’t know his birthday...but Autumn in New York would be cold enough to need to wear a little knitted bonnet; and that’s it.
FOR THE RECORD:
THE VENUE WAS IN CHICAGO
http://www.anthonyflood.com/rockwellelijah.htm
February 25, 1962
On February 25, [1962] Rockwell and a contingent of ten stormtroopers walked into the Chicago International Amphitheater, where more than twelve thousand Black Muslims were gathered for the Savior’s Day convention. The Nazis were searched by the Fruit of Islam guards and escorted to the front row. Malcolm X spoke to the audience before introducing Elijah Muhammad
~SNIP
During his talk some members of the audience grumbled and booed, but Elijah Muhammad and his top aides applauded enthusiastically.6 His thoughts were encapsulated in the April 1962 issue of Muhammad Speaks
“...we get a theory that ALL of SAD’S images, AND THAT MEANS HUNDREDS have all been tampered with”
Not ALL but MANY especially when “she” was a young STANLEY named after a man Madeleine wasn’t even married to. Ha Ha.
Feb 25th 1962, the “Jamaican” Shabazz would have been 16 months old. El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz was killed on Feb 25, 1965. Time to go to Indonesia?
All good fun.
Still haven’t responded to the established geographical link between Bari Malik Shabazz and FMD in Hawaii?
What were the names of the parents of Bari Malik Shabazz?
Who was the Valerie Newman (actress) who materialised in London, and seems to have changed her name to Valerie Sarruf (actress) according to IMDb?
Who was the Jo Ann (D for Delanor ?)Newman who wrote Malcolm X’s obituary in the New Amsterdam News?
Were Valerie and Jo Ann connected to the leading Communist Fred D Newman who also had a long obituary published by the New Amsterdam News?
Would the best choice of someone to “babysit” your child be a close young female relative of the mother (keeping in mind Malcolm X was already married and couldn’t acknowledge the child publicly)?
If not Valerie then who? You mention a Maronite Christian, care to name names?
“Barack Obama is reported to speak Indonesian as result of the four years, from age six to age ten, that he spent in Indonesia.” that means he came to Hawaii in 1971.
Jamaican Shabazz would have been 12. That would explain why Bari always seems a bit older and bigger than his stated age.
When they created the fake Barack Obama II persona for him, why didn’t they give him his natural date of birth? Because the only available child who died young in Hawaii at the appropriate time had a birthday two years later? And the forgers needed to steal her Birth Certificate number.
Recently (just before the election) OTraitor went back to Hawaii and got fake birth details filed for a non hospital out of town birth on the strength of Mad Dunham’s Affidavit?
So now he has his birth on file, but no proper birth certificate number? And no proper birth certificate?
c7ccccc Stanley Armour DUNHAM Obama
Linda’s Branches
BIRTH: 29 Nov 1942 - Sedgwick, United States
MARRIAGE: 1960 - Hawaii, United States
DEATH: 7 Nov 1995 - Honolulu, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States
Stanley ARMOUR Dunham born 1942. This is getting very confusing. I though it was Stanley ANN. They are certainly unlucky in keeping the same names all their lives.
No. I’m wrong. It’s SHIRLEY Ann Dunham, not STANLEY after all. Easy mistake to make. And look how well she’s done! Got Degrees in lots of ‘ology’s. Sometimes two at a time, and even sometimes when she’s not there at all...She even had a son without giving birth and he turned into the President...Just amazing.
PHOTO:
Dr Stanley Ann “Shirley” Dunham
CATEGORY:
Portrait
DESCRIPTION:
Stanley with her young son Barack (future US President).
ATTACHED TO:
Dr Stanley Ann Dunham (1942-1995)
The Cheshire Cat is the cat of the Duchess. Alice meets it when she leaves the Duchess house, and finds it in a tree. It constantly grins and can disappear and reappear whenever it likes. Sometimes it disappears and leaves its grin behind. Alice remarks that she has often seen a cat without a grin but never a grin without a cat
The Cheshire Cat is the only character in Wonderland who actually listens to Alice. With his remarks, he teaches Alice the ‘rules’ of Wonderland. He gives her insight in how things work down there.”
I admit that it does look like the same kid at first glance. Especially the first two. The woman holding the baby, even though the photo was shot from the rear, does resemble early photos of SAD. Enough to raise questions, that is. She also resembles that “model” in the FMD porn shots. The hairstyle is similar to what we see on the high-school-aged SAD and the model in the porn shots. It seems certain that the photo did appear in that publication. You’re right that they only IMPLY that it was taken that day, at that event, where “the young listened.” If Bari was born in 1959, then he would have been much older than that. If Barry Soetoro was born in August 1961, even he would have been older. That baby looks younger than 6 months old to me. Many babies look alike. Without seeing the kid’s hair, we can’t tell for sure. The baby on the left could be female. Hard to tell.
Do you have links for this stuff? Where are you getting it? It means nothing to us unless we know the source.
Comes from search ancestry. Free trial for month.
Bari Shabazz and FMD lived in Hawaii. There’s a comment. Bari Shabazz and Don Ho lived in Hawaii.
Upon what evidence do you arrive at the conclusion that actress Valerie Newman changed her name to Sarruf? (Is her husband one of the Three Stooges who went to Washington?)http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c61.0.403.403/p403x403/549484_10151193209082985_1309569584_n.jpg
Since Valerie Newman was born around 1915, what makes you think she could be Bari’s mom?
We know who the person who wrote the tribute was: A clerk. Perhaps an errand girl for grocery store clerks.
Birth, Marriage & Death
Bari M. Shabazz
Birth 28 Oct 1959 in New York, USA
Death Aug 1994
U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1
Schools, Directories & Church Histories
NAME:
Bari M Shabazz
RESIDENCE:
1984 - Quantico, VA
[East Elmhurst, NY]
Social Security Death Index
NAME:
B. M. Shabazz
BIRTH:
28 Oct 1959
DEATH:
Aug 1994
CIVIL:
New York
Family trees at Ancestry.com are only as good as the “researcher” behind them. They are full of erroneous information, as you see. Ancestry does nothing to verify them. In the same way, the trees at the Mormon websites are user submitted and not confirmed. So anybody who uses them needs to do their own original research, and back up every claim with primary documents.
It does appear, however, that “Stanley” Ann’s name was originally reported as Shirley. I read a post about it on some blog, where all references to Shirley were documented, just as there are posts out there about the many scrubbed references to Queen’s Medical as the birth place.
You are being deliberately obtuse. Did you not know this already? What king of research have you been doing?
Valerie Newman was born in 1940 not 1915 as you say.
She appears in the International Movie Database along with Valerie Sarruf http://www.imdb.com/
Looking at the dates of the films
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0628299/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0765586/
It seems likely that they are two names for the same actress. I’d need to see some of the movies to prove it, and getting copies may be problematic.
“We know who the person who wrote the tribute was: A clerk. Perhaps an errand girl for grocery store clerks.”
Why did an errand girl named Newman get to write Malcolm X’s obituary?
Quantico? Around that same time Roy Obama lived in the DC area.
Deliberately obtuse? I might accuse you of the same.
Did you even look at the photo that I linked?
Did you notice that the page you yourself linked to says that Valerie Newman had a daughter with Curly Howard? Do you know who that is?
Curly of the 3 Stooges. The photo was taken sometime in the late 1940s. They married in 1947. He died in 1952. That’s Janie in the photo. When Curly married Valerie, she was thrice-widowed and age 32. Do the math.
Your other Valerie may have been born in 1940, but she’s not Valerie Newman. That other Valerie’s movies were made in the appropriate timeframe for a young woman born in 1940.
Do go get the movies for the other Valerie Newman and look at them before you decide that Valerie Newman was young in the 60s and changed her name to Sarruf.
By the way, you said specifically that “per IMDB” she changed her name. Would you care to link to where IMDB says that?
What kind of research are YOU doing? I do THOROUGH research before I jump to the conclusion that someone with a common name like Newman must be SOMEHOW, with no proof, related to Fred Newman.
I’m not saying that Jo Ann Newman, the clerk who wrote a tribute to Malcolm X, is NOT related to him; but since you make the claim, it’s your problem to prove it.
Brown Deer showed census records that indicate that Freddie Newman didn’t have any sisters named Valerie in 1940. While one may have been born later, there’s no evidence of that yet.
Trowbridge claims to know who Jo Ann is and even says she’s still alive and active in the cause; but Martha the creative writer doesn’t link sources or back up her claims with proof. Why is that?
The proof is in the pudding and so far all we see is trifle.
Public records searchs also say that Bari M. Shabazz is 52. He’s not. He’s dead, according to the Social Security index. So, how accurate are these public record searches? Have you ever searched for yourself on them? Do you find any mistakes? They’re compiled from databases that make assumptions about people and so, like Ancestry, they’re only as good as the people entering the data and making the assumptions. Garbage in, garbage out.
This is not our theory. It’s yours or at least you seem to own it here in Trowbridge’s name. So, it’s up to you to put out the evidence and convince others that it’s true.
Correction: Valerie was thrice-MARRIED but a widow when she met Curly Howard. Now one thing to remember, the IMDB is, like Wikipedia, a user-edited website. Accuracy is not ensured. I see nothing that says Valerie Newman, Curly’s wife, was an actress, although she may have been. The IMDB definitely says Curly married the actress Valerie. http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Curly_Howard That is the link where I found the approximate age for her. However, Curly’s wife Valerie died about 1962, so she could not have been in those late-60s movies. Something is wrong somewhere, which goes to show that you can’t rely on online databases. You need primary sources or at least more reliable ones than user-compiled sources.
“Your other Valerie may have been born in 1940, but she’s not Valerie Newman. That other Valerie’s movies were made in the appropriate timeframe for a young woman born in 1940.”
She’s not Valerie Newman? I don’t understand you. Valerie Newman is on the public record and on the movie database
Name: Valerie Newman
Birth Date: 1940
Address: 370 Montauk Cir, Syracuse, NY, 13212
Name: Valerie Newman
Birth Date: 1940
Address: 370 Montauk Cir, Syracuse, NY, 13212
You deny the Public record when it suits you. If you have specific links you want me to follow let me know. I don’t have time to follow all of them.
And I don’t have to prove anything. I can ask questions and there doesn’t seem to be any good answers forthcoming. In fact quite the opposite. Lack of interest and curiosity. And I’m looking for a female relative of Fred Newman called Valerie Newman. Martha Trowbridge didn’t say daughter, she said the mother was close to Fred, related to him.
And I don’t see any credible theory from the researchers. Sorry
I don’t deny the public record when it suits me.
You said THAT particular ACTRESS Valerie Newman is the person who was born in 1940. You support this by showing addresses for a woman in NY named Valerie Newman who was born in 1940. But there’s no confirmed link between that woman and that actress.
If the actress’s page that YOU linked to is the same woman that you claim is the one in NY, born in 1940, then that same woman is the mother of Janie and the wife of Curly Howard. Except she’s not, because THAT woman who was the wife of Curly Howard, according to IMDB, which you linked as a source, was BORN IN 1915 or thereabouts.
If you don’t follow the links, read them, digest them, consider conflicting evidence to your own hypothesis, and reconsider as a result, then what sort of honest research are YOU doing? Or are you just being obtuse?
You can ask all the questions you want, but as someone else said the other day: Do your own research; it’s not our job to do it.
Why aren’t you looking for a relative of Fred Newman named Jo Ann, since that’s the name Trowbridge, the CREATIVE WRITER, used? Or has she since decided to change Jo Ann’s name to Valerie?
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