Posted on 10/19/2006 5:11:50 PM PDT by pigdog
As specified in Congressional bill H.R. 25/S. 25, the FairTax is a proposal to replace the federal personal income tax, corporate income tax, payroll (FICA) tax, capital gains, alternative minimum, self-employment, and estate and gifts taxes with a single-rate federal retail sales tax. The FairTax also provides a prebate to each household based on its demographic composition. The prebate is set to ensure that households pay no taxes net on spending up to the poverty level.
Bill Gale (2005) and the President’s Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform (2005) suggest that the effective (tax inclusive) tax rate needed to implement H.R. 25 is far higher than the proposed 23% rate. This study, which builds on Gale’s (2005) analysis, shows that a 23% rate is eminently feasible and suggests why Gale and the Tax Panel reached the opposite conclusion.
This paper begins by projecting the FairTax’s 2007 tax base net of its rebate. Next it calculates the tax rate needed to maintain the real levels of federal and state spending under the FairTax. It then determines if an effective rate of 23% would be sufficient to fund 2007 estimated spending or if not, the amount by which non-Social Security federal expenditures would need to be reduced. Finally, it shows that the FairTax imposes no additional real fiscal burdens on state and local government, notwithstanding the requirement that such governments pay the FairTax when they purchase goods and services.
(Excerpt) Read more at people.bu.edu ...
And add to that the fact that there would be no need for anyone, and especially an agent of the government, to know anything about our income or it's source(s). Why Americans would actually "be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..." for the first time in a LONG time. Why we might just experience a little real F R E E D O M ! !
You are correct that many already pay estimated taxes without withholding but that doesn't cover the tens of millions of workers who don't nor does it touch the underground economy. The IRS police would be out in force finding and threatening those who don't comply and those who change addresses often. Threat and intimidation are the primary instruments of the government and that would by nature increase. The number of enforcers would increase dramatically by necessity and we would have more government union members whose money goes to the Democrats. I think eliminating withholding will be impossible.
There are many more reasons for changing the method of collecting taxes than revealing the amount of taxes paid. There are still many hidden taxes embedded in the system other than the income tax.
I am amazed at the furor shown by some, not you necessarily, about changing to the fair tax. At worst, granting all the misinformation and lies spread here to be true, it is still far better than the present system or any other so far proposed.
Why don't you get behind it? Be forewarned that my standard reply will be it is still far superior to what we have.
Their continued use of misinformation and personal attacks just doesn't seem to work, but it does create more adversaries.When the resident spokesperson for the Fairtax spews obvious lies, post after post after post any sane person would wonder, if it's such a great plan why the OBVIOUS lying .
I give them benefit of doubt on their intelligence and assume they know better (except one or two), they're just liars...The other one or two are just stupid, you know who they are.
I disagree. The length he goes through to try to cover up lies takes quite a bit of intelligence. He is actually fairly creative in some of his spin. I think he just feigns his acting ignorant routine when he is really caught in a lie. He is just stubborn and will not admit a mistake under any circumstance.
If the good Lord were a FairTaxer, He would ask 10% of what you spend, not what you profit.
"Dimples puts of heck of a lot more thought in her posts than you do yours."(emphasis added)
Her posts??? Are you two going together???
"Their continued use of misinformation and personal attacks just doesn't seem to work, but it does create more adversaries."
WHOSE use of "misinformation and personal attacks"??? Look back through this thread and see who is originating all the personal attacks ... it's not the FairTax supporters.
As for "misinformation", the FairTax opponents are well-know for that as well and it is continually shown up on these threads. Having a different opinion is one thing - putting out obviously false information (as many of you do) in the guise of "truth" is a stock in trade for many of you.
He is just stubborn and will not admit a mistake under any circumstance.Actually that's good (bad for him) because he turns his mistakes into even more lies. It exposes him as what he is and it just multiplies like his tax cost mechanism/chart/spreadsheet/listing example.
The FairTax was the brainchild of three very wealthy businessmen who got tired of tax planning so they thought and talked and figured the best plan was one that exempted all their business activity and profits from taxation.
They each throw some money in the pot ($1.5 million) to hire economists to do studies proving that exempting the source of their wealth from taxation would be good for the common folk too.
They tried out their ideas on focus groups, discovering the best words to use when selling their plan - and the "FairTax" was born.
They hired K-Street lobbyists (those bribing and bribable guys working for the "F. CAT" businessmen for tax favors against the interests of the common folk) to pitch their plan to Washington politicians. (not that the FairTaxers are looking for tax favors by exempting their wealth and profits from taxation - you understand)
Then they planted seed, watered and fertilized, nurturing - until they grew a gen-u-wine grass roots movement.
Because the FairTax scheme relies on a consistent level of consumption, I would think the choice for a healthy economy is not either or.
Or are you one of those people who think that gov't spending is an "investment"?
Government spending that creates infrastructure, promotes financial stability and protects people and property is an investment.
The tax paid isn't lost at all. It will be printed on the receipt just as it is for state sales taxes.
Dimples is exactly right.
Not only will the tax be paid in small, daily bites, but the prebate will come in a lump sum every month. What a deal!
Well, let's review this thread. My first post was in #5:
Always Right: Except the paper still fraudulantly insists that governments can raise money by taxing themselves. The report also states that state governments will have to raise their tax rates to make up for the additional revenues because of the taxes imposed on the states. Not a honest third party analysis, but an analysis by a paid for fairtax shill.
All rationale arguments with no personal attacks against any poster. I kept my arguments to factual discussions of what is in the report and undisclosed information about the author of the report. Your response in posts #10:
PIGDOG: Your post is merely nonsense and utter gibberish and merely indicates you either haven't read or don't understand the paper (or both).
You immediately attack my intelligence. You don't engage in any intelligent debate. You don't refute the points except to call them 'nonsense and utter gibberish'. You initiate your childish attacks, then you have the nerve to LIE about who originated the attacks on this thread. And then you cry and cry repeatedly about personal attacks on you. Your continual outright lying in every thread has no place in a forum which thrives on honest discussion. In my opinion, this forum would be a much better place without you.
..glad somebody noticed...
You missed the point entirely.
For all the same reasons you think you can get the FairTax passed. Actually, Congress will be FORCED to engage in entitlement reform because the system is nearing insolvency. The FairTax will not change that.
he top 50% of income earners pay 97% of all income taxes/84% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of wage earners...
There you go again, focusing ONLY on income taxes. Yes Income Taxes are highly progressive; BUT income taxes only represent about 40% of Federal Tax Receipts.
Another 40% is Payroll tax borne by largely the lower income wage earner. Then there are excise, profit taxes, etc.
All told the combined Federal Tax regime is less progressive than you pretend.
In fact, the FairTax is MORE PROGRESSIVE than the combined Federal tax regime of today.
Under the current system, even the bottom income quintile pays a combined tax rate of about 6%. Under the FairTax it would be NEGATIVE.
If you look a any "effective tax rate" comparison (You'll find them on the FairTax website, you'll see that the shape of the curve denotes a more highly progressive tax system than the current one.
So, if progressivity is your daemon, then be careful what you wish for ... the FairTax could be your worst enemy.
And if you think the FairTax will somehow stop Congress from increasing taxes, you are naive. Remember, the FairTax doesn't do away with excises. Expect excise taxes to climb through the roof.
The FairTax doesn't change the ability of lobbyists to lobby nor the ability of Congress to change the tax law. I can see it now: Lobbyists for the Healthcare industry convince congress that medical care is a "necessity" even more important than education. After all, even the uneducated can work and contribute to society; but, the ill cannot. It's more important to be healthy than it is to be educated. And of course, there is great popular support for such a FairTax exemption. How to pay for it? Simple means test the prebate ... after all rich people don't need a prebate....
And we're right back where we started.
Not today, but if you eliminated withholding (or made it voluntary) it would.
...nor does it touch the underground economy...
And neither does the FairTax.
As for "policing" pay your taxes or go to jail. If one is going to engage in illegal behavior, they deserve to be punished.
While I would agree that eliminating withholding would be politically difficult, if done gradually, it's far from impossible.
...it is still far better than the present system or any other so far proposed...
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. I happen to disagree with your assessment. I believe, for many reasons hashed over and over again in this forum, that the FairTax will be an economic disaster (academic simulation notwithstanding.) I believe the advertised rate is artificially low, that the incentive and opportunity for evasion are far greater than advertised, that the predicted long term economic benefits will not be achieved (largely because of the short term problems the the simulations ignore) and that the worst thing we could do for entitlement reform is bury the funding in a general tax. There are more, but you get the idea.
There are still many hidden taxes embedded in the system other than the income tax.
And most of them are not eliminated by the FairTax. Only income, profit and payroll are SHIFTED to the FairTax. The rest stay hidden and are more likely to expand.
While the FairTax may make you feel good, it doesn't get at the heart of the beast: spending/entitlement reform.
Under the current system, the underground economy is taxed (remember all those hidden taxes) everytime a retail purchase is made. If the underground economy expands to evade the high FairTax rate, perhaps even less tax will be collected from black market activity.
For citizens and legal residents who derive their income from the underground economy, well, they'll be entitled to the prebate just like the rest of us.
Under the current system, the underground economy is taxed (remember all those hidden taxes) everytime a retail purchase is made. If the underground economy expands to evade the high FairTax rate, perhaps even less tax will be collected from black market activity.
We've been round and round this mulberry bush so many times I'm sick of it!
Why do you people continue to post this lie when you KNOW it's a lie?
Is keeping the communist inspired, class warfare, social engineering enabling income tax THAT important to you?
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