Free Republic Poll on Evolution

Free Republic ^ | 22 September 2006 | Vanity

[PatrickHenry]

Free Republic is currently running a poll on this subject:

Do you think creationism or intelligent design should be taught in science classes in secondary public schools as a competing scientific theory to evolution?

You can find the poll at the bottom of your "self search" page, also titled "My Comments," where you go to look for posts you've received.

I don't know what effect -- if any -- the poll will have on the future of this website's science threads. But it's certainly worth while to know the general attitude of the people who frequent this website.

Science isn't a democracy, and the value of scientific theories isn't something that's voted upon. The outcome of this poll won't have any scientific importance. But the poll is important because this is a political website. How we decide to educate our children is a very important issue. It's also important whether the political parties decide to take a position on this. (I don't think they should, but it may be happening anyway.)

If you have an opinion on this subject, go ahead and vote.

[Jaguarbhzrd]

I did not run away, I just believe that such ignorance does not deserve much of a response.

Why should I take the time out of my busy day, to respond to someone who obviously is unwilling to expand their knowledge?

You wish to stay ignorant, that is your decision, me, I will take the brain that God has given me, and learn as much as I can.

The more I learn about science, and evolution, etc, the greater God becomes, whereas with you, the more you learn, the lesser God becomes. You wish to learn as little as possible, because for some reason, science makes your God smaller.

That's a choice you have made, I choose to believe in a God that can do whatever he wants, however he wants. And the more science I learn, the greater and more wonderful God becomes.

[Thatcherite]

Has anyone asked it what it thinks of dentistry?

If anyone finds themselves needing antibiotics to cure an abscess or having a wisdom tooth removed their soul is in serious danger! Root canal work is an invention of Satan, seriously.

[.30Carbine]

Hitler believed in and brought to evil fruition the perhaps innocently theorized idea of "natural selection" leading to "survival of the fittest." Hitler used Darwinian theory to justify his "master race" plan. He deduced - and deluded others into following his lead in acting out the deduction - that since the "unfit" "useless eaters" were going to be evolutionized into extinction anyway, it was not only his prerogative but his civic duty to help the process along, to speed up this evolution by the gas chambers. To attempt to deny this is to deny the facts.

I highly recommend Darwin's Deadly Legacy to you and to all.

[.30Carbine]

The time-span-madness is the last residue of Darwinism.

Thank you so much for the ping!

[.30Carbine]

I highly recommend that you actually view Darwin's Deadly Legacy before commenting on its content.

[.30Carbine]

You would do well to actually investigate the claims of Darwin's Deadly Legacy by at least viewing it before making claims against what it says. You are aware of the project, but do you know what it actually presents?

[.30Carbine]

Here is the passage in context, which I did link in my original post:

Isaiah 2

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it.

3 Many people shall come and say, “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.

5 O house of Jacob, come and let us walk In the light of the LORD.

(I've run out of time for more precise formatting: here is a link to the book and chapter: Isaiah 2.)

[tomzz]

Something I've seen at a museum years gone by. The internet does not seem to know anything about it, I've checked also.

[dread78645]

Velikovsky's theory out of Uranus placemark

[js1138]

You seem to be right. There's no point in doing good things until the Boss is hovering over us. I lose track of these concepts.

[atlaw]

Perhaps having to choose to between believing in something that is highly improbable, trying to open escape hatches that won't open, or believing in an Intelligent Designer, i.e. God, is making you a little bit uncomfortable.

If this is the case, I would suggest that reading the gospel of John may be a good place to start. I suspect that someone with your intellectual abilities would also enjoy C.S. Lewis: Mere Christianity as well. God opened the heart of a great scientist named Blaise Pascal. Pascal described it as "tears of joy. tears of joy. tears of joy." I honestly wish you the best even though I have never met you personally, and I pray that God will open up your heart.

Your condescension is duly noted (although condescension from someone citing Pascal is rather ironic). And once again, your presumption that I must be a scripturally ignorant infidel, and that you alone have unearthed the little known writings of C.S. Lewis (exactly how old are you?) speaks volumes.

Signing off now. I wish you the best in finding a fellow teenager with whom you can share the secrets of God and Clearasil.

[atlaw]

Hopeless case. Maybe a few D's when he gets to college will temper his "supersage" delusions.

[Virginia-American]

... Second, it is simply irrelevant to the question. Life had come from somewhere, either life came from non-life or it came from an Intelligent Designer. The question doesn't change even if the definition of evolution does. ...

I'm getting a bit confused. Are you seriously trying to argue that the ToE is somehow dependent on how life got started?

Let's consider an Eohippus evolving into an Equus caballus.

First scenario: The first life arose via a natural chemical process.

Second scenario: The first life was put here by space aliens.

Third scenario: The first life was a miracle from God.

Explain how Eohippus' evolution will be different in the three cases, or admit that the ToE is independent of the initial formation of life. The theory basically states that given inheritable variability which affects reproductive success, evolution is inevitable; how do the initial conditions affect this?

[unlearner]

Well after two retorts from you, you have not provided a single clue as to what specifically you think I am in error about.

Contrary to your misinformed opinion, I do like science. I love science. In fact, I am tutoring a local college student who is having trouble in science. I read science books. I have read many technically detailed science books over the last few years for the main purpose of enjoyment. I subscribe to newsletters which keep me up to date in the latest scientific news.

A person who jumps to unsubstantiated conclusions, and pretends to mind read about a complete stranger's skills, motivations, education, and competency should refrain from criticizing others' objectivity.

Now, if you would like to address specific errors with my position, I will be happy to take your points under advisement and / or defend my position. Blanket generalizations about someone else's post is the true waste of time. And that is your own fault, not mine.

[FreedomProtector]

It was meant as a compliment, not as condescension. Many very intelligent people have read that book and changed their minds about Christianity. In fact, I know two of them personally. And many, many, many more very intelligent people have read gospel of John and changed their hearts as well. I am truely sorry if you thought I was trying to be condescending.

I never claimed to be an expert ("you alone unearthed the little known writings") in C.S. Lewis writings, in fact I still find the Abolition of Man a difficult read and I have (tried to) read it a couple of times.

I have given away a clue as to how old FreedomProtector is here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1706571/posts?page=873#873

"Although it has been a while since I have been in high school (college, graduate school and several years of very interesting work have since past),"

Perhaps if I was still a "fellow teenager" and have done those things then FreedomProtector must truely be extremely unique, but I doubt it.

May God, the Intelligent Designer of the entire universe including you, atlaw, bless you abundantly.

FreedomProtector

"And you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."

[Liberal Classic]

Root canal work is an invention of Satan, seriously.

People who have had a root canal are likely to agree with this assessment!

[Jaguarbhzrd]

Unlearner, when someome says that biblical based science has as much evidence as real science, that poster can no longer be taken as a rational human being.

Sorry, I just cannot take you seriously.

[unlearner]

Well that is specific enough.

Do you consider Pasteur's tests of biogenesis and his germ theory of disease to be scientific? How 'bout his work in vaccinations and his development of pasteurization? Or his discovery of chirality?

He used rigorous testing which is held to be a model of science. His evidence to support his hypotheses were empirical and repeatable. But his formation of these hypotheses and selection of them for testing were informed by his confidence in the Bible being wholly true.

Specifically, he based his ideas on two principles taught in the Bible: (1) uncleanness causes disease, (2) life was created to propagate after its kind.

As I have pointed out before, science begins with an idea. There is no known scientific methodology to initiate that creative spark. It is not limited to ideas found in the Bible, but it also does not exclude them.

But by all means, since science based on the Bible cannot really be science, you should demand that our government stops promoting vaccinations because this violates separation of church and state (and the separation of state and common sense).

[andysandmikesmom]

Yeah, right...you are the one who advocates that people not use modern medicine nor take advantage of modern medical technology...I have no problem with that...if that is how your chose to lead your life, that really is just fine with me...everyone has their right to chose whatever medical course they wish...

If Jerri wants to follow your example, and not use any modern medicine, or modern medical technologies, fine...however, if she wishes to use modern medicine and modern medical technologies, thats fine as well...its her/his choice...

And there are no signs that the medical profession is coming aboard, coming around to your way of thinking concerning medicine...alternative medicine has been around for ever, and tho it may be gaining a little more popularity, the truth of the matter is, whenever a medical professional advocates using alternative medical treatment, they never advocate using that alternative medical treatment as a substitute for modern medicine...taking vitamins, and supplements and eating well, are ideas that have been around forever...nothing new about that...

So, let everyone decide which venue of 'medical' opportunities each wants to use...they can avail themselves of modern medicine and modern medical technology, which even most, I suspect, on FR, would advocate, or they can put their hands over their eyes, and pretend that modern medicine and modern medical technology, have no place in their lives, and just follow your methods...

I suspect, that very few, either on FR, or in the real world, would follow your method...

So according to you, I belong to a failed system, which advocates using modern medicine and modern medical technology...and you belong to a system, where no modern medicines, and no modern medical technologies are used, and yet you call that system one that works...

Yeah, right...of course, you have it completely backwards, but then, its your choice...as we all can make our own choices, I think I will stay with modern medicine, and modern medical technology...that is the system that works, and that is the system that most folks chose..you chose differently...

[jerri]

If Jerri wants to follow your example, and not use any modern medicine, or modern medical technologies, fine...however, if she wishes to use modern medicine and modern medical technologies, thats fine as well...its her/his choice...

Leave me out of your argument on medicine. I rely heavily on my meds! ;p