Posted on 05/22/2006 8:14:10 AM PDT by RightWingAtheist
The kosher laws were given only to Israel for the express purpose of separating her from other countries. And it has worked well. Jews have maintained their identity despite having been exiled and scattered for almost 2000 years.
What are you referring to? Do you have a more specific reference?
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Oh, I think I probably do, to the extent that this issue requires it.
To do real significant damage to the world takes zealotry, not cynical corruption. The cynically corrupt find much safer, easier and more obscure paths thru life. You can't create the fire in the belly to sustain a mission like a Hitler's, with the conviction that you are sneaking around doing wrong, and getting away with it.
The kosher laws were given only to Israel for the express...
Really? Where in the law does it say this? Does this mean the rest of the laws laid down by God in Exodus don't apply to others? Like the 10 commandments? Maybe you have a checklist we can consult?
Jewish orthodox uncles are permitted to marry their nieces--although, amusingly enough, their aunts can't marry their nephews--that would be incest. All in accordance with biblical laws. This is common knowledge, and widely discussed. You can find this out with google in a matter of seconds. The history of the Rothchilds is repleat with it.
"As a christian religeous argument about morality, this seems pretty much out on the ragged edge of bizarre."
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
So...let me get this straight. If you are not a christian, but you behave consistently with whatever morality you choose to have you are saved? Righteous? Handstamped? Good Housekeeping approved? So long as a socio-path does whatever he pleases, he's saved/righteous because he's internally consistent?
Not quite. You don't choose what your conscience tells you. It's preprogrammed. If you obeyed your conscience your entire life, you would not sin, and you would have no need for Jesus to have paid for your sins.
But we know that nobody has or will do this.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
So long as a socio-path does whatever he pleases, he's saved/righteous because he's internally consistent?
First, lets define socio-path. Dictionary.com describes a socio-path as a person having an anti-social personality disorder, but I thought a socio-path is one where the person had zero ability to distinquish right from wrong. In short, he either has no conscience or was born without a conscience.
Personally, I don't think anyone is born without a conscience. If true, then to either develop either an anti-social disorder, or to completely eliminate one's own conscience, then the person would probably have to violate his own conscience. And if so, he has sinned and is condemned.
But what if it is a physical mental health phenomenon, where the person is born with an impaired or non-existent conscience. Then the Lord is just going to have to judge that. Only the Lord knows the full circumstances and the full ability of the person to recognize right from wrong. I can't see judgement occuring where their was no conscious awareness of sin. Scripture doesn't really cover this scenario that I'm aware of, so I doubt it exists. If it does, I have no doubt that the Lord will deal with it appropriately.
On the otherhand, we are all His creation, and I don't think that He necessarily owes us eternal life, simply by virtue of having created us.
The Bible ruled out marrying your father's brother, your father's sister, and your mother's sister. It fails to mention your mother's brother. So it's not that it gives permission or approval, it just fails to mention it.
You know the Good Lord gave you some brains for a purpose. I don't know what certain orthodox Jews do, but I wouldn't advise marrying your uncle, no matter how hung up on him you are.
Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. ... 12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman. 13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman. 14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
Now there's a bang-up defense. May I take it you've forgotten what this argument is about?
Much as you don't owe us a rationally related response to any given argument, just because you are posting on freerepublic; as is herewith demonstrated.
No question that has been recently asked can be answered with "I don't think he owes us eternal life".
Ok, I get it. Anyone whose conscience differs substantially from that of your church, is mentally deranged and incompetent to detect his own true conscience. I'm sure Torquemada had a similar theory about those he tortured for their own good.
Why are you trying so hard to justify sociopaths? Are you one?
I'm not. You are--using the bible as ammo. You say the bible sez as long as anyone is true to their own conscience, they are moral (righteous) (saved?). Then you turned around and said if their conscience isn't in tune with your religion's conscience, they must be removed by disease from the dictates of their own conscience, which I'll bet you a snicker's bar is nowhere to be found in the bible, and which is a load of hooey. Socio-paths are not diseased, they are perfectly healthy, per se. As isthe case for fundamentalist muslim suicide bombers--they are at one with their religious affiliation, and not in any obvious way diseased.
I never said their conscience had to be perfectly in tune with my religion. God designed the conscience. He wrote His laws on everyone's heart.
Socio-paths are not diseased, they are perfectly healthy, per se.
There you go with your super ability to read people's conscience again. You just got to tell the NAS about that. Tell the psychiatric associations too while your at it, since I'm sure they still list that as a mental illness.
I've already told you that I think everyone starts out with a conscience, but that if someone doesn't, he is still a creation of God and it is still up to God to judge him for his behavior. But you prefer to twist my words.
As isthe case for fundamentalist muslim suicide bombers--they are at one with their religious affiliation, and not in any obvious way diseased.
Their religious affiliation is not the same as their conscience. A person can easily decide to reject their conscience in order to fit into their culture.
I'm not using the Bible to attack you. I'm using the Bible to show that my positions are scripturally based. That's especially important when you say things like "As a christian religeous argument about morality, this seems pretty much out on the ragged edge of bizarre."
asking you to explain yourself is not "twisting your words". This does not in any way address the questions: "Are orthodox jews saved?" or "Is the bible the unimpeachable source of moral instruction?" or "is it a fundamental christian precept that you can only be saved thru accepting christ as savior?". It is just weaseling.
There you go with your super ability to read people's conscience again.
Ok, you tell me what deteriorating physical or social effects being a socio-path has on the socio-path. As far as I've been able to tell, most of the people who run the world are highly successful socio-paths who have no trouble keeping mistresses and legally robbing the world.
OK...let's just summarize your thesis: It's a christian precept that you are saved, not by accepting jesus as savior, but rather, by obeying whatever arbitrary dictates of your conscience you manage to manifest. Have I got that right? Maybe if you look hard enough in every obscure corner of the bible, you can demonstrate that black is white.
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