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To: DannyTN
I've already told you that I think everyone starts out with a conscience, but that if someone doesn't, he is still a creation of God and it is still up to God to judge him for his behavior. But you prefer to twist my words.

asking you to explain yourself is not "twisting your words". This does not in any way address the questions: "Are orthodox jews saved?" or "Is the bible the unimpeachable source of moral instruction?" or "is it a fundamental christian precept that you can only be saved thru accepting christ as savior?". It is just weaseling.

918 posted on 07/26/2006 1:50:04 AM PDT by donh
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To: donh
"asking you to explain yourself is not "twisting your words". "

Your method of asking me to explain myself, isn't to say "did you mean this..." but rather "You said 'twisted all out of recognition'".

"Are orthodox jews saved?"

I can't speak with absolute 100% authority on the Jews. But I have very little hope for them. To have rejected the second covenant, in a sense is to have broken the first. It was for that reason that they were exiled from Israel for almost 2000 years. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father but by me". Jesus told Nicodemus who not only was a Jew but a member of the Sanhedrin that he "must be born again." Jesus said that those that did not believe in Him, were condemned already.

It might be possible that God will apply Jesus' sacrifice to the Jew, since the Jew was trusting God and asking for forgiveness. But given Jesus' comments it's hard to see how that could be. And in a sense, the Jew didn't trust God, because if he studied the prophecies, he should have been able to recognize Jesus.

"Is the bible the unimpeachable source of moral instruction?"

Yes, but unimpeachable, doesn't mean untwistable. If you want moral instruction, there is no better guide than the Bible. But if your intent is to lift things out of context and see how far you can twist each little account of the Bible to try to say something it didn't, then you can make a royal mess out of the Bible.

The Bible says a man will cling to a woman (singular), yet then it gives instructions for your behavior if you do violate that principle and take multiple wives. The Bible says God hates divorce, but it gives principles for divorce. The Bible says not to take a man to make merchandise out of him, but then it gives directions if you do have a slave, and it even uses slavery as a punishment, both for Israel and those who attacked Israel.

If you are intent on twisting each of those to mean the Bible promotes multiple wives, or divorce, or slavery, then you'll never "get it".

"is it a fundamental christian precept that you can only be saved thru accepting christ as savior?"

Yes it is. If you never sinned, you wouldn't need to be "saved", because you wouldn't be under judgement. However we know nobody has or will do that.

922 posted on 07/26/2006 2:12:06 AM PDT by DannyTN
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