Whatever "grass-roots" usage means, a public school is still a part of a local government in the US, and local governments in the US have had to respect rights established in the Bill of Rights, by constitutional law, ever since the post-civil war amendments to the constitution were ratified. You may not like this, but it is nonetheless, what the constitution says.
Sorry 'bout the confusion there, in talking about "grass roots" I was leading up to my suggestion (one with which you disagreed) about there being a continuum between accomodation and endorsement. Apparently I did not make the connection clear enough; or possibly you had dismissed that subject from your consideration once you had 'disposed of it.'
I think you must have hugged a liberal lately. There is no significant "money which was going to the school anyway"; schools are overwhelmingly funded by compulsory taxation--of everyone: athiests, pastafarians, jainists, jews, moslems, wiccans, and raelians not excluded.
Yes, that money from compulsory taxation does "go to the school anyway" : for salaries, maintenance, utilities, staff, administrative overhead, etc.
I don't believe we were addressing private clubs meeting in otherwise unoccupied buildings after hours, which I have no insurmountable problem with. I believe we were addressing the faculty of a school being forced to endorse a contemptuously thinly disguised christian religious doctrine in a science class which, as was pointed out earlier, children and their parents are lead to believe they are forced to attend if they want to graduate.
That is in fact what ID tends towards, particularly as manifested in the Dover case. But in one of your earlier posts, to which I was responding, you seemed to advance the position that virtually ANY usage of public schools by any religious organization, constitutes an "Establishment of religion". My post to which you just replies was addressing that point.
Contrary to your stated opinion, endorsement IS the same as establishment, and accomodation probably is to, if it costs anything significant to accomodate.
Endorsement need not invoke sanctions for rejection of what is endorsed; establishment presumably would. And you chopped off half of my statement again--are you zeroing in only on those portions of my text with which you disagree? Just to prevent unnecessary friction.
Consider finding a way to flesh out your thoughts that doesn't involve using me as a noodle-scratching post.
If I knew exactly what a noodle-scratching post WAS, I might be in a better position to comply ;-)
Huh. That was pretty detailed arguing for a bored person.
You must not be a regular reader of my posts. No surprise, most everyone else ignores them too :-)
Ether and phrenology were sciences, once upon a time, and ID has a better shot then they do.
Most people today tend to use the word "sciences" when they mean "Natural Sciences" i.e. implicity looking only at the natural world, not considering the supernatural. If one happens to use that working definition, then ether and phrenology were better "sciences" than ID.
Unless you're one of those folks who believe that extraterrestrials seeded the earth etc.
If you include unintelligent extra-terrestrials, then I do.
I apologize if you posted extensively on this topic earlier, and I missed it--if unintelligent extra-terrestrials seeded the earth, how does that fit under the rubric of "Intelligent" design? (Unless you meant the unintelligent E.T.'s were themselves the 'seeds' ??)
ID's anemic cousin, panspermia, bears some promise.
Never heard of that, I'm sorry to say. (Told you the subject bored me!)
...do you have a link handy like Ichneumon tends to?
Cheers!
...and Merry Christmas!
Apparently, I made an argument that as of the civil war, the constition says ALL local governments must respect the 1st amendment. Nobody answers this argument terribly often, because it's pretty obvious.
Yes, that money from compulsory taxation does "go to the school anyway" : for salaries, maintenance, utilities, staff, administrative overhead, etc.
I didn't understand the point of this argument the first time you ran with it. How does this address the point that people of every religious pursuasion must pay taxes to support schools?
you seemed to advance the position that virtually ANY usage of public schools by any religious organization, constitutes an "Establishment of religion".
I expect it does. I'm just not willing to fight over something like a couple of kids using a classroom after hours. It doesn't piss me off like it does when school officials use their positions of authority and exclusive access to student ears, to push a private agenda the constitution forbids.
And you chopped off half of my statement again
Why is that a problem? Make more succinct statements, and I won't be able to do that.
Natural Sciences" i.e. implicity looking only at the natural world, not considering the supernatural. If one happens to use that working definition, then ether and phrenology were better "sciences" than ID.
As the defendants at Dover repeatedly pointed out, (in their case, lying, as it happened) ID does not insist on a supernatural explanation.
Endorsement need not invoke sanctions for rejection of what is endorsed; establishment presumably would.
Gee, what a consolation. Do you think the inquistion wasn't a Catholic organization in control of spain after it stopped burning spanish witches?
Most people today tend to use the word "sciences" when they mean "Natural Sciences" i.e. implicity looking only at the natural world, not considering the supernatural. If one happens to use that working definition, then ether and phrenology were better "sciences" than ID.
Oh, I don't think so. ID has, in my estimation, a far better chance of becoming a serious science theory, since ether and phrenology have pretty much been to bat, and failed their falsifiability tests. The odds on ID are just basically unknown.
if unintelligent extra-terrestrials seeded the earth, how does that fit under the rubric of "Intelligent" design?
Go back and look, I wasn't answering a question about ID.
ID's anemic cousin, panspermia, bears some promise.
Never heard of that, I'm sorry to say. (Told you the subject bored me!) ...do you have a link handy like Ichneumon tends to?
Why would you want a link if you are bored with the subject?