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Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]
Fox News | 12/20/05

Posted on 12/20/2005 7:54:38 AM PST by snarks_when_bored

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: biology; creation; crevolist; dover; education; evolution; intelligentdesign; keywordpolice; ruling; scienceeducation
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To: Almondjoy
I'm college educated so it would be fair to say that I went through my own fair share of biology classes.

Isn't good enough for you? Too bad. There is plenty of examples out there for you to chew on.

What are you on about here? Examples of what?

2,561 posted on 12/23/2005 2:19:08 PM PST by donh
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Absolutely, they know what religion is and is not!


2,562 posted on 12/23/2005 2:20:48 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: lonestar67
It is quite reasonable for scientists to argue about what science is. It is less reasonable to use the much abused establishment clause problems of current legal practice to take a short cut on the problem. That is what happened here

On another thread I suggested that fraud charges against the school board and its individual members would also be in order.

They are required by state law to prepare a science curriculum.

They willfully included the pseudoscience of ID in the curriculum.

This constitutes fraud against the people of Dover, and, IMO, is also a high crime warranting impeachment and removal from office by the Pa. Legislature.

2,563 posted on 12/23/2005 2:20:49 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: unlearner
You are repeating yourself, also.

But I'm not wrong and you are dodging about where you clearly are. Your hypothesis sucks.

Let me simplify: Life can only originate through intelligent intervention.

How will you exclude all other possibilities?

No need for infinite tests.

It is very, very, far from clear why not. Please stop spewing and pretending you can't see. Deal with the problem. Why can't a creationist have the minimal integrity to confront a problem instead of shucking and jiving and spewing and running and hiding?

It is falsifiable.

Yes, a counterexample could be found any time. However, the lack of one being found by any given time doesn't mean doodle.

It is testable.

By what possible means? Please answer this question. I've asked it in three posts now. Don't just tell me it's testable. That would look very bad if you did that yet again.

2,564 posted on 12/23/2005 2:25:29 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Torie
"Luis was just exploiting for his own purposes and amusement a ludicrous factual assertion."

Valiant attempt at reaching the unreachable, but as I am sure you've by now surmised, we're dealing with an indvidual who will go unclaimed by creationists, evolutionists, and those who believe that everything exists because the Great Galactic Marshmallow willed it so.

2,565 posted on 12/23/2005 2:29:19 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: 13Sisters76
"...150 years for evolution and not a single one..."

Two thousand years, no Jesus.

2,566 posted on 12/23/2005 2:31:39 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: conservative blonde
May be so, but the public school secularist humanists are using science as their religion to indoctrinate the children into believing evolution is fact. This is wrong.

Science is not a religion, or an anti-religion, just because a bunch of science cranks with a painfully obvious ax to grind, and an overactive sense of drama say so. Science texts do not represent theories in science as facts, in the sense that they are proven and/or unquestionable--they are just useful ideas, whose utility goes up and down over time--as the history of science makes painfully apparent. Such constructs do not have the capacity to say anything in the least signifcant about God either way.

2,567 posted on 12/23/2005 2:32:10 PM PST by donh
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Last verifiable miracle...the '69 Mets.


2,568 posted on 12/23/2005 2:34:05 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

"Last verifiable miracle...the '69 Mets."

As a lifelong Mets fan, it pains me, but you're wrong. You forgot the Miracle on Ice (1980). :)


2,569 posted on 12/23/2005 2:44:14 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

God Lord!

You are correct!


2,570 posted on 12/23/2005 2:45:27 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: airforceF4
Here is a testable theory of ID. If some designer made DNA, and made it with intention to survive many different environments that the "package" could have encountered, then one would expect DNA to be able to generate life in environments rich in active elements other than carbon, that can be a basis of living systems.

If one could show that DNA could generate viable cells based on other than carbon based chemistry, (say silicon), what would the judges say?

2,571 posted on 12/23/2005 2:46:48 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: Almondjoy
You clearly don't show any understanding of what I'm talking about.... Clearly ID isn't scientific. But teachers saying that Darwinism proves that God doesn't exist isn't here. And if you don't think that's going on in today's science classes you need to take the blinders off.

I guess I don't. Are you seriously claiming that public school science teachers are claiming that ToE disproves the God hypothesis? Can you back this up, if it is what you're saying?

2,572 posted on 12/23/2005 2:47:33 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: donh
Perhaps you could cite a specific example of a biology teacher citing Darwin's theory as proof that God doesn't exist, in a biology classroom.

I'm college educated so it would be fair to say that I went through my own fair share of biology classes.

Isn't good enough for you? Too bad. There is plenty of examples out there for you to chew on.

Ah, I think I get it. You want to demonstrate to me that the universe is jampacked with biology teachers who routinely teach that Darwin's theory of evolution disproves the existence of God, because that's how you remember interpreting what was said to you. How about, lets say, 3 news stories to that effect, in a well-known, secular newspaper in the last year?

You have a pretty insulated view of the world as it is presently constituted, to imagine that any biology teacher that did that wouldn't be canned before the week was out.

2,573 posted on 12/23/2005 2:55:05 PM PST by donh
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I forgot this one:

Ric Ocasek and Paulina, married 1989.

2,574 posted on 12/23/2005 2:55:11 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: BagelFace; xzins
...and if they don't answer in a way that violates their conscience, their good sense, and their religion, then they are penalized on a standardized test that controls their graduation. That is abominable.

Tough.

They are required to learn enough science to pass a standardized test. The ToE is an important part of science.

Christian Scientists (ie members of the Eddy cult) have to learn about the germ theory of disease, and Jehovah's Witnesses need to learn about blood typing and how it impacts on transfusions.

Teetotalers need to learn about fermentation. Vegetarians need to learn the nutritional value of meat and milk.

Do you think Muslims should be excused from art class if they're learning anatomy and drawing faces? Should socialists be excused when the kids are learning about economics? If my dad is a mobster, does that excuse me from civics class? What if he's a Jehovah's witness?

2,575 posted on 12/23/2005 3:01:58 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

That doesn't count.

That much cash can usually attract that much babe.


2,576 posted on 12/23/2005 3:11:38 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: GregoryFul
If one could show that DNA could generate viable cells based on other than carbon based chemistry, (say silicon), what would the judges say?

That you should win the insensibly complex, unlikely fantasy contest. Wouldn't it be orders of magnetude cheaper and easier for a deity to just show up on 60 Minutes and create life from dirt instantaneously in front of a camera?

2,577 posted on 12/23/2005 3:19:53 PM PST by donh
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To: P-Marlowe
...If nobody forced these offended atheists to take biology in Dover ...

Of course you have evidence that the plaintiffs were atheists, don't you?

2,578 posted on 12/23/2005 3:26:28 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: P-Marlowe; Dimensio
Common design?

There is a DNA defect common to all the great apes, including us, that prevents us from making ascorbic acid. The hypothetical designer seems to have a quality control problem.

2,579 posted on 12/23/2005 3:29:38 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: donh
Wouldn't it be orders of magnetude cheaper and easier for a deity to just show up on 60 Minutes...

Not if they wanted either ratings or believability.

2,580 posted on 12/23/2005 3:49:00 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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