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Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]
Fox News | 12/20/05

Posted on 12/20/2005 7:54:38 AM PST by snarks_when_bored

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: biology; creation; crevolist; dover; education; evolution; intelligentdesign; keywordpolice; ruling; scienceeducation
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2001


2,001 posted on 12/21/2005 2:49:29 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

According to Wikipedia:

"The actual term, "separation of church and state", does not appear in the Constitution, but rather derives from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state


2,002 posted on 12/21/2005 2:50:03 PM PST by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: Ceewrighter
The statement:

The Pennsylvania Academic Standards require students to learn about Darwin’s Theory of Evolution and eventually to take a standardized test of which evolution is a part. Because Darwin’s Theory is a theory, it continues to be tested as new evidence is discovered. The Theory is not a fact. Gaps in the Theory exist for which there is no evidence. A theory is defined as a well-tested explanation that unifies a broad range of observations. Intelligent Design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin’s view. The reference book, Of Pandas and People, is available for students who might be interested in gaining an understanding of what Intelligent Design actually involves. With respect to any theory, students are encouraged to keep an open mind. The school leaves the discussion of the Origins of Life to individual students and their families. As a Standards-driven district, class instruction focuses upon preparing students to achieve proficiency on Standards-based assessments.
2,003 posted on 12/21/2005 2:51:10 PM PST by toadthesecond
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To: 2nsdammit
They are wrong.

Roger Williams

Before him, a Renaissance Italian cleric, who died about the year Williams was born, Fausto Sozinni, better known as Faustus Socinus (1539-1604).

2,004 posted on 12/21/2005 2:54:23 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: toadthesecond
Intelligent Design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin’s view.

That would have to be some difference, because Darwin didn't publish a view on the origin of life. "Origin of Species" ends with a speculation about first life being created.

2,005 posted on 12/21/2005 2:55:54 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: 2nsdammit
The argument that I thought was transpiring here was whether Intelligent Design constitutes a religious belief, or a competing theory to Evolution.

There are multiple arguments on this thread but the one that concerns me is the topic of the thread. That being the intervention of the fedguv in a local issue, his holding that the disclaimer violates the establishment clause and his use of a term to support that view that appears nowhere in the Constitution of the United States.

Nobody is forcing you to reply to me. I won't feel especially saddened if you decide you don't want to discuss the merits of the holding.

2,006 posted on 12/21/2005 2:57:00 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: 2nsdammit
"When they [the Church] have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the Candlestick, etc., and made His Garden a wilderness as it is this day. And that therefore if He will ever please to restore His garden and Paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world, and all that be saved out of the world are to be transplanted out of the wilderness of the World." -- Roger Williams 1603 - 1683

2,007 posted on 12/21/2005 2:57:54 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: dread78645

Federal judges are not empowered by the Constitution to decide school curriculums. Period.


2,008 posted on 12/21/2005 2:59:39 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat (I am SO glad to no longer be associated with the party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Now...if a public school curriculum includes a mandatory class that teaches that this or that particular religion (or religious belief) is the one true religion/belief, then a line has been crossed.

Dovers old school board never included intelligent design in the science curriculum.

I'm not an ID advocate. Evolution, small e, is an observable fact and intelligent design, small id is an observable fact.

I'm a committed creationist, Catholic style.

I don't think public schools should be proselytizing one religion at the expense of others. But I include secular humanism in their as well.

A disclaimer does not establish nor favor any religion. Ergo, the federal government has no dog in the fight. The remedy for school boards not representing the views of the locals is for them to be removed electorally which is exactly what happened in Dover before the robe began his proselytizing.

A constitutional republic works, if we let it.

2,009 posted on 12/21/2005 3:03:09 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Recovering_Democrat
You are wrong.

"Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution."

All cases arising under the Constitution.

2,010 posted on 12/21/2005 3:03:38 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jwalsh07

"The robe" began because people brought the case to it.

Dover's school board mandated the teaching of intelligent design, and intelligent design is religion wearing a disguise, so, in effect, Dover's school board mandated religious teachings to be included in a biology class.

Had the Dover city council mandated that teaching evolution be included in Sunday class, people would have argued that the Constitution forbids such a thing.

Yet, they are the same thing.


2,011 posted on 12/21/2005 3:10:19 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: js1138
True. However, any attempt to create life in a lab, without regard to the ID debate, has the potential to support the ID based statement (I gave previously) of the origin of life. Also, scientists do continue to seek any evidence of a mechanism for abiogenesis (so far to no avail).

To rely on these as the only support for the hypothesis would be just plain lazy for ID proponents.

But your observation is why I can only claim my ID based statement is a hypothesis and not a theory.
2,012 posted on 12/21/2005 3:13:27 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Well, Williams certainly espoused the theory. I believe that Wikipedia claims that Jefferson was the first (in US writings, at least) to use the actual phrase.

That said, I am certainly not defending Wikipedia's voracity, per se... ;-)


2,013 posted on 12/21/2005 3:14:01 PM PST by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Roger Williams.

:-} Sharp as ever Luis.

Yup, Jefferson borrowed the notion from Roger Williams and Justice Black enshrined a sitting Presidents persoanl letter to a Danbury Baptist Minister as legal precedent in direct contravention of law.

It has always been my conviction that Bush should simply pick out a Danbury Baptist Minister and write him a letter saying that "separation" no longer obtains.

Voila!

2,014 posted on 12/21/2005 3:14:25 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Dover's school board mandated the teaching of intelligent design, and intelligent design is religion wearing a disguise, so, in effect, Dover's school board mandated religious teachings to be included in a biology class.

This is false Luis. Dovers school board did no such thing.

2,015 posted on 12/21/2005 3:16:23 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Dover's school board mandated the teaching of intelligent design, and intelligent design is religion wearing a disguise, so, in effect, Dover's school board mandated religious teachings to be included in a biology class.

Not arguing with you, just pointing the innaccurate and even hypocritical statements made by the Dover board.

As most have noted, Darwin deals only with the origin of the species, not the origin of life.

On October 18, 2004, the Defendant Dover Area School Board of Directors passed by a 6-3 vote the following resolution:

Students will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin’s theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design. Note: Origins of Life is not taught.

On November 19, 2004, the Defendant Dover Area School District announced by press release that, commencing in January 2005, teachers would be required to read the following statement to students in the ninth grade biology class at Dover High School:


The Pennsylvania Academic Standards require students to learn about Darwin’s Theory of Evolution and eventually to take a standardized test of which evolution is a part.

Because Darwin’s Theory is a theory, it continues to be tested as new evidence is discovered. The Theory is not a fact. Gaps in the Theory exist for which there is no evidence. A theory is defined as a well-tested explanation that unifies a broad range of observations.

Intelligent Design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin’s view. The reference book, Of Pandas and People, is available for students who might be interested in gaining an understanding of what Intelligent Design actually involves.

With respect to any theory, students are encouraged to keep an open mind. The school leaves the discussion of the Origins of Life to individual students and their families. As a Standards-driven district, class instruction focuses upon preparing students to achieve proficiency on Standards-based assessments.



2,016 posted on 12/21/2005 3:31:05 PM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: js1138
Ninety-nine percent of the time when a FReeper uses the word Harvard, it's a pejorative.

So true. As an Ivy leaguer myself, I often find joy reminding them that our fine President went to Yale AND Harvard.
2,017 posted on 12/21/2005 3:34:31 PM PST by whattajoke (I'm back... kinda.)
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To: jwalsh07
That being the intervention of the fedguv in a local issue, his holding that the disclaimer violates the establishment clause and his use of a term to support that view that appears nowhere in the Constitution of the United States.

While your point does make some sense, perhaps it would behoove the Seattle based ICR to therefore but out of every small town school board election as well?
2,018 posted on 12/21/2005 3:36:01 PM PST by whattajoke (I'm back... kinda.)
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To: whattajoke

Absolutely if you mean getting federal courts involved. I have no problem with either side bringing their experts to school board meetings and having at it.


2,019 posted on 12/21/2005 3:43:02 PM PST by jwalsh07
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beer-thirty placemark


2,020 posted on 12/21/2005 3:57:18 PM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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