Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[snarks_when_bored]

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

No, I will never apologize for the truth. Darwin rejected his own theories of evolution before he died...

I have seen others make this assertion.

How do you know, for a fact, that this is true? Do you have a cite or link for this claim that I may explore for myself?

Yes, I know I could use Google, but then there's no way for me to know that the sites I've visiting contain the proof that so convinced you. See what I mean?

[Dimensio]

No, I will never apologize for the truth. Darwin rejected his own theories of evolution before he died.

A claim for which you have no evidence, and a claim that other creationists admit is almost certainly false.

If you choose not to believe this then so be it. I don't have to prove anything to you.

In other words, you don't care that you're repeating a lie. You have been told that the story is a lie -- no, you've had it explained exactly why the story is a lie -- yet you repeat it. That makes you a liar. Clearly you have no shame.

The fact is I think you are out of school this week for Christmas vacation.

Actually, right now I'm at work. And I've got to go make a tech support call to someone in the building (I'm the local computer support for the Psychology department at a local university). But I'll come back to see how you've tried to defend repeating a known lie.

[js1138]

Common descent is neither here nor there.

If the Dover school board thought that way, there would have been no interference with the science curriculum and no court case.

I have been checking this on FR for about six months now and have found only a couple of "ID" supporters who openly accept common descent. The majority of FReepers on these threads do not accept common descent and are surprised to find people like Behe take common descent for granted.

The fight over mechanisms will eventually come down to molecular biology and mathematics.

[highball]

Darwin rejected his own theories of evolution before he died.

Simply not true. Who told you that?

If you choose not to believe this then so be it.

It's not a question of "belief." It's a question of fact. There is no evidence to support your assertion, aside from the stories of the evangelist "Lady Hope." Those claims, first made 30 years after the fact, have never been supported and have been disavowed by Darwin's own children. That lack of any documentation, witness or supporting evidence whatsoever, plus the fact that "Lady Hope" was an evangelist who had certain motive to distort Darwin's views for her own agenda, have resulted in those stories being debunked by virtually every historian.

You may want to believe that it happened, but that belief doesn't mean that it did. History doesn't work that way any more than science does.

[js1138]

Consult your bible for the answers you seek. I'm not playing your childish game son.

So when you are pinned down, it's a game. I suggest if you lack the information and intellect to play, you should stop posting altogether.

[highball]

Ah, you beat me to it. Shows what I get for being a slowpoke.

[Diamond]

Do you see the difference between "...there is no way to know", and "I know of no way to know", and can you explain why that is not a problem?

Cordially,

[jwalsh07]

Does what?

[jwalsh07]

I would argue against universal common descent if I was pushed on the matter if one defines the universal common antecedent as a single cell. But again it is neither here nor there in my world view.

What affects me and mine are judicail activists and their rooting sections. I'll argue that all day long without prodding.

[2nsdammit]

Still doesn't prove your contention that 75% of people believe in a literal translation of the bible, or in ID (your specific claim), or that such things should be taught in public schools.

A belief in God does not imply a belief in the literal interpretation of the bible. In fact, here's an article which points out the wide disparity of beliefs among denominations:

http://www.adherents.com/misc/BarnaPoll.html

[highball]

I would argue against universal common descent

That would put you at odds with the majority of Intelligent Design proponents, including Behe.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Can you see where I expanded on my point and repeatedly said that I know of no way to know?

" I said I know of no way to know either way." (me) post 1890

In the same post I said, "I said there is no way now to know."

That is also true. That's a statement that is open to testing, but I am aware of nothing that is objective evidence for a God. Like all such statements, it's tentative, like statements of facts are in science.

Now, for the 3rd or fourth time, what is your evidence for the existence of a deity? Put your cards on the table or fold. This is getting tedious. If I am wrong that there is no objective evidence for God's existence, enlighten me.

[js1138]

Everyone has trouble at some point with authority figures. I suspect the science teachers in Dover thought about the school board the same way you think about judges.

[jwalsh07]

I stated this: "Nothing in the Constitution prevents religion from being taught in any public school. Classes on Christianity, Islam, Judiasm et al are neither proscribed by the Constitution nor by the Oligarchy."

And you tell me that a couple of hundred years of case law argues against that statement and point me to Wikipedia.

Evidently, you are clueless in Seattle or wherever it is you hail from.

The statement I made is not arguable, it is truth.

[RunningWolf]

poke fun bump

[dread78645]

Immediately after the Cuban revolution my state mandated a course in Americanism vs Communism.

Florida?

I remember "Comparative Political Systems" course from junior high. The instructor was a refuge from an Iron Curtain country (Chezkoslavokia?), very straightforward in his answers. Not everything in America was white, nor everything in East Europe was black.

[jwalsh07]

That would put you at odds with the majority of Intelligent Design proponents, including Behe.

So what? I happen to think the evidence is overwhelming that once H2O showed up, life proliferated. I don't believe it happened once and everything descended from that cell. That's why I couched my reply the way I did.

I also believe that God's greatest gift is free will. In my case, I make use of that gift. What you think, Behe thinks or Dawkins thinks has very little influence on what I think. I use my own thinker.

[balrog666]

[jwalsh07]

Everyone has trouble at some point with authority figures. I suspect the science teachers in Dover thought about the school board the same way you think about judges.

You do understand the situations are not analagous, right? Science teachers are not indentured, they have remedies for situations where they don't agree with the school board. The remedy which never fails to end the tension is the one where the teacher finds a new job.

[js1138]

Sounds like you had a better thought out course than I did. We had movies that made Army WWII training films on VD look like Shakespeare. It was the first year.