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Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]
Fox News | 12/20/05

Posted on 12/20/2005 7:54:38 AM PST by snarks_when_bored

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: biology; creation; crevolist; dover; education; evolution; intelligentdesign; keywordpolice; ruling; scienceeducation
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To: narby

Unhinged Monkeyman Placemarker


1,241 posted on 12/20/2005 3:41:57 PM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: benjibrowder
I highly doubt if the Supreme Court stepped in and said that socialism and communism must be taught in schools that you'd say the same thing, would you?

Actually the court did not mandate evolution. It merely said that ID was religion and could not be taught.

If socialism and communism were declared religious (and that is a good argument against them), then I'd expect they could not be taught either.

I don't know what the argument would be to force the teaching of a particular thing by the court.

1,242 posted on 12/20/2005 3:42:29 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: Ace of Spades

false religion of evolution triumphs


1,243 posted on 12/20/2005 3:42:54 PM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: ml1954
The voters may not have voted the way they did if it weren't for the trial.

Huh? Voters are that dumb? They needed a TRIAL that threatens to usurp the local decision makers in order to vote the right way?? The people who believe in evolution aren't able to educate the voters about how wrong and evil ID is in the classroom?? Believers in evolution have to resort to federal judges to get their ideas across??

I think the supporters of evolution are smart enough to get their point without a lawsuit. I think they ought to be able to make a case to the voters without asking a federal judge to intervene.

1,244 posted on 12/20/2005 3:43:37 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat (I am SO glad to no longer be associated with the party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: navysealdad
If God didn't created anything. Why do you believe in God?

God is who created us. Evolution is how he did it.

1,245 posted on 12/20/2005 3:43:43 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: rawhide

Sorry yes.


1,246 posted on 12/20/2005 3:43:57 PM PST by JNL
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To: laxin4him
It is reasonable to believe that the complexity of the human eye, the human brain, everything we see was the result of random chance.

Given a set of assumptions that rules out intelligent design, yes. An as-yet-undetermined amount of as-yet-undetermined substance can, with as-yet-undetermined amount of time produce anything and everything we know, and do so completely apart from any intelligence or design. Believe me! In fact, that is the only truly scientific way of looking at it, if you'd only have the sense to consult Judge Jones.

1,247 posted on 12/20/2005 3:44:39 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: xzins
I've already mentioned that the mutation is random, and since that's what drives the actor on whom selection is taking place, then that opens up selection to be seen as random.

Also, and not to get into the theology of it, but that which survives and that which dies sometimes has nothing to do with anything other than pure chance.

Living in New Orleans this past year was counter-productive, for example. Being in Sumatra during a tsunami had nothing to do with height or left-handedness, either.

If you had a machine that spit out spit out blocks of randomly varied shapes, and they fell into a sorter that only let square shapes through, would you really believe that the exclusive collection of squares that emerged happened randomly?

And you might be interested to learn that natural selection works on populations, not individuals. That isn't to say that a newly emerging beneficial mutation couldn't be wiped out by chance before it was able to propagate, but in the long run that won't always be the case. Also, the larger the population that shares the mutation, the less likely it is that an outside chance event will skew the selection and that simply further supports the idea that a mutation that encourages its successful spread through the population is favored. Of course, if the event is one that profoundly affects a major part of that population over time, then it may actually become the filter of natural selection itself.

1,248 posted on 12/20/2005 3:45:52 PM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: eleni121; Dimensio; narby

Science does not depend on who believes what. Your whole argument is silly 'reasoning'. It does not matter whether Marx believed in evolution or creationism, in an OT god or a NT god, or a Hindu god, or no god. The business of science is sorting out what are valid explanations of natural phenomena, and this is independent of specific individuals. If Darwin had not developed the idea of evolution, someone else surely would have, since the observable world points to it.

As far as what Hitler, Marx or Stalin may have thought--if they thought--it makes no iota of difference. This is a kind of argument from authority in reverse. Science does not depend on authority figures to be valid. Nor is it smeared by bad people who accept it.

For example, it is likely that Hitler and Stalin believed in motherhood and gravity, too--would you then say that motherhood and gravity are, therefore, suspect and invalid?


1,249 posted on 12/20/2005 3:46:20 PM PST by thomaswest (Just Curious)
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To: xzins
The ID math says that it is. There's some math, so far poorly explained, that says that the ID math isn't all it's cracked up to be.

What ID math?

You're the one who can't provide a link to this supposed "not enough time for evolution" argument.

The main problem with mathematical arguments against abiogenesis (there are none against evolution) is that we don't know how abiogenesis might have worked. So the math can't be done at all.

Garbage in, garbage out.

1,250 posted on 12/20/2005 3:46:42 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: gdani
When it is God's hand which is holding atoms together, which is the reason God belongs in the science classroom.

And I thought it was the strong nuclear force holding nuclie together and the electromagnetism holding atoms together via quantum mechanical probability functions (i.e. the very nature of matter is uncertain, it is described as a probability [N.B. very abridged explanation for those quantum saavy FR posters ]).

1,251 posted on 12/20/2005 3:47:05 PM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
God is who created us. Evolution is how he did it.

I pretty much agree with that but what does it have to do with a federal judge sticking his nose into the local affairs of the citizens of Dover?

1,252 posted on 12/20/2005 3:47:33 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Recovering_Democrat

Let me get this straight. Which side of the debate took this to a federal court?


1,253 posted on 12/20/2005 3:47:36 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

[...Judge never said (nor implied) God doesn't exist.

Dover Area School Board members violated the Constitution
when they ordered that its biology curriculum must include
the notion that life on Earth was produced by an unidenti-
fied intelligent cause, U.S. District Judge John E. Jones
III said.

Sorry... this statement made me angry. Perhaps I made
the inference that the Judge does not believe God exists.

Happily, this is between God and the good Judge.

Merry Christmas.


1,254 posted on 12/20/2005 3:47:46 PM PST by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
Evolution is how he did it.

What the name of your god?

1,255 posted on 12/20/2005 3:49:15 PM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: laxin4him
So it is reasonable to believe the universe magically appeared out of nothing

Evolution says no such thing.

It is reasonable to believe that the complexity of the human eye, the human brain, everything we see was the result of random chance

Evolution says no such thing.

It is reasonable to believe all the variables required for life on earth just happened.

Erm, it's pretty clear that they *happened*, seeing as how we're here and everything. The dispute would be whether they happened according to natural laws or required the intervention of a supernatural entity. And guess what, evolution says nothing about that.

It is reasonable to believe in evolotion (macro) without any evidence to support that theory.

Of course not, although since there is in fact boatloads of evidence for evolution (yes, "macro" if you like, not that that's a relevant distinction) the question is irrelevant. But I'm glad to see you agree that beliving in a theory which has no evidence to support it is unreasonable.

1,256 posted on 12/20/2005 3:49:21 PM PST by ThinkDifferent (I am a leaf on the wind)
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To: Jo Nuvark
Dover Area School Board members violated the Constitution when they ordered that its biology curriculum must include the notion that life on Earth was produced by an unidenti- fied intelligent cause, U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III said.

If the Judge actually said that, he'll be overturned just as fast as the guy who decided the Gerogia case is going to be overturned.

1,257 posted on 12/20/2005 3:49:29 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Jo Nuvark

"Sorry... this statement made me angry. Perhaps I made
the inference that the Judge does not believe God exists.

Happily, this is between God and the good Judge."

Agreed. :)


Merry Christmas!


1,258 posted on 12/20/2005 3:49:38 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: RaceBannon
false religion of evolution triumphs

Oh, no. RB is here.

Now we're gonna have to start all over at the "it's only a theory" part.

1,259 posted on 12/20/2005 3:49:59 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: narby

Because its what liberal college professors do. By not even mentioning ALL various forms of the origin of man, we are doing exactly what the liberals do, brainwashing.


1,260 posted on 12/20/2005 3:50:36 PM PST by benjibrowder (The government (at all levels) should not be involved in the education business.)
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