Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 1
Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 2
Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 3
Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 4
Another Twist in Holloway Disappearance
Ala. Teen's Mom: Men 'Know What Happened' (Natalee Holloway)
Natalee's body found... (false report)
Holloway Not Only American Missing In Aruba
Natalee Holloway (Aruba) 5 Men Now in Custody
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Maps, Transcripts,Aruba/Natalee - Blogs/Boards/Forums/News Feeds, ect. can be found on previous Natalee Holloway threads #1 through #4.
Massive search for missing 5-year-old Floyd, Iowa girl continues
Has her family's news conference been held yet?
Satish Kalpoe, 18, right, and brother Deepak, 21, leave jail after being freed in the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, in San Nicolas, Aruba, Monday, July 4, 2005. (AP Photo/Pedro Famous Diaz)
Brothers Freed in Aruba Missing Teen Case
Posted: Monday, Jul 04, 2005 - 07:05:14 pm CDT
By PETER PRENGAMAN
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Two Surinamese brothers held in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager were freed Monday on the orders of a judge, but the 17-year-old son of a top justice official was ordered jailed for 60 more days.
The justice official's son, Joran van der Sloot, and Surinamese brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, had been held since June 9 on suspicion of murder in the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala. The three young men have acknowledged that they were with Holloway the night she disappeared.
Holloway vanished in the early hours of May 30, the last day of a five-day vacation on the Dutch Caribbean island to celebrate her high school graduation with 124 other students.
"The detention of Deepak and Satish K. has not been prolonged," court clerk Isella Wernet said, reading from a prepared statement outside the courthouse. "The suspects are ordered released immediately. The detention of Joran van der S. has been prolonged 60 days beginning today."
Joran van der Sloot, right, leaves court in a police car in Oranjestad, Aruba, Monday, July 4, 2005, where a judge decided he will be held for 60 more days in the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, who disappeared on this Dutch Caribbean island on May 30, 2005. (AP Photo/Leslie Mazoch)
Wernet did not explain the reasons for the judge's decision.
An AP photographer saw the Kalpoe brothers leaving the San Nicolas prison accompanied by a lawyer.
"The day finally came," one of Satish Kalpoe's lawyers, David Kock told The Associated Press later. "I've been saying this for a long time: They have no basis to keep my client in detention."
The office of Attorney General Karin Janssen said prosecutors are considering appealing the decision to release the Kalpoes. They have three days to do so.
Contacted by telephone, van der Sloot's father, Paul van der Sloot, said he had no comment on the judge's decision.
Holloway's stepfather, George "Jug" Twitty, said the family decided to cancel a previously planned news conference because "after today, we just need to regroup and think about it all before we say anything."
Under Dutch law that governs Aruba, a protectorate of the Netherlands, detainees can be held 116 days before being charged by a judge. Van der Sloot has still not been charged formally, said his lawyer, Antonio Carlo.
Prosecutors have acknowledged they have no solid evidence that Holloway is dead. They said they could proceed with a criminal case anyway, although it would be difficult.
The judge's decision was announced several hours after van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were brought to the courthouse in the capital, Oranjestad.
Holloway's mother, her father, and their respective spouses were allowed to wait inside the courthouse, but were prohibited from attending the hearings, a family friend said.
Earlier Monday, attorneys for all three young men reiterated their clients' claims of innocence.
"The further we get, the more it shows my client had nothing to do with any crime," said Deepak Kalpoe's lawyer, Ruud Oomen.
Carlo would not comment on whether investigators had presented any new evidence against his client. But he said a judge did approve a motion allowing attorneys to be present whenever van der Sloot is interrogated. Carlo said previous requests for a lawyer's presence had been denied since the beginning of the case.
The Kalpoe brothers have told police they dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off near the Marriott Hotel in the early morning hours of May 30 and that was the last time they saw her.
Van der Sloot's mother, Anita van der Sloot, said her son told her he was alone with Holloway on a beach but that he did not harm her.
Holloway vanished the same day she was to catch a flight home with the other students celebrating high school graduation. Numerous searches by Dutch marines, Aruban investigators and volunteer rescue groups have failed to turn up any trace of her.
A service of the Associated Press(AP)
Thanks for the move, TexKat.
If they dont find the body, dont find the murder weapon, have no witnesses, and nobody talks, then that pretty much ends it.
Here is my theory: Joran Van Sloot accidently killed Natalee Hollaway and the Kalpoe brothers were present when it happened. Knowing Van Sloot's track record, he was obviously expecting a one-night-stand. Possibly put Extasy in her drink and she had a fatal reaction, or perhaps they got into a scuffle when he made a pass at her and he fatally injured her. Then the three panicked and disposed of her body, then concocted a lie to cover it up.
Thanks for the new thread, and for getting us back in the News Forum!
bookmark
I understand that he is a "Judge in Training"...does that mean he is a regular lawyer?
Who might he represent on the island?
Send comments and complaints to the Dutch Embassy (for aruba) concerning the pathetic inaction in finding the killer of this young woman.
nyc-ca@minbuza.nl
Like so many others I have followed this story since the beginning. I have read most all the statements, threads, and posts on here and other blogs/forums, watched the news coverage, and have seen how many contradictions have arisen or words were changed/slanted to suit the current line of thinking as it progressed, or someones comment or question was not accepted with consideration or as it was meant. I have seen professionals on TV argue that no one but Joran could be responsible. And I have heard others debunk some aspects of that theory based on their willingness to entertain other possibilities, or challenge the validity of some things that do not seem probable.
Yesterday I watched the Twittys attorney when she was asked about what Beth had said about the Kalpoe brothers. She said she advised Beth not to continue with those types of statements. Evidently she is trying to encourage that the attacks cease. At this time I feel this is in the best interest of the family and that they be helped to allow some consideration for other possible options to their desire for answers.
There is much support that any caring person wants to give a grieving parent at a time like this. Thousands, including me, feel the Twittys agony and hope and pray that Natalee is safe somewhere and found. Initially we all wanted it solved easily, we wanted Joran to provide the answers, and Natalee to show up and everyone continue with their lives. When this did not happen we were frustrated, but that frustration cannot drive everyone to remain focused on only one possibility.
There also come a point when kindness for the Twitty family also includes helping them deal with the current known reality, no matter how ugly and different it might be than their suppositions.
I feel that the kindest support Beth and her family can get from people would be to help them turn their focus away from trying to create negativity against a few people (with whom there is no proof of any criminal action against Natalee). It would be more positive for them to allow for the possibility that other individuals, yet unknown, might be responsible. There might be an answer to what happened in this tragedy, or that answer might never come. Prayers for Natalees safety are needed more than angry words, and can do more than the negative vibes and nasty comments (bordering on hatred) that are currently being spewed out. The process of accepting should begin which would be more beneficial to the family at this point. And heartfelt prayers that they can find peace should replace the wild, public condemnations of those still considered innocent. The serenity prayer comes to mind:
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next. Amen
Dont misunderstand me, I want justice just as much as the next person. I am not one who advocates allowing anyone, anywhere, regardless of position, status, or any circumstances, who is guilty of a crime go without punishment. But, until guilt is proven, there must be sensible focus on facts not just on suppositions and emotions.
For a family, participating in efforts to discover the truth can often get so overwhelming that it becomes a hindrance rather than help when they are so emotionally connected. (Believe me I know, and just do not wish to elaborate here.) Professionals are trained to remain objective and it is best not to expect them to proceed just on feelings alone. It is true that parents can provide a lot of insight in cases. It is true that there are/were conflicting statements, (yes, even lies that I agree cause concern), questionable actions, unusual circumstances, etc. that had and have yet to be investigated and some might always remain unclear.
It is also true that we all wish the authorities had acted more quickly or differently in the beginning. But constant bickering now cannot change the way they proceeded then. Thousands of man hours and thousands of dollars have been spent, far more than for many other missing children who are not as fortunate to have such resources dispensed for them (including high tech resources and aerial support). One can wonder now if such intensive attention and allotment of resources will be the case for the next missing child who does not get the hype and spotlight.
However, there is an element that should also be addressed: It does seem unlikely that one 17 year-old, unskilled, island high school boy could have committed the perfect crime in such a small location and in such a short period of time - and who had no known abilities to be so incredibly thorough or capable. If Joran is guilty of something more than an irresponsible, stupid act of leaving Natalee on the beach (which occurs all the time at Easter Break here in the states by students every season- I have seen it plenty of times) then he should be punished to the full extent of Arubas laws. But it will have been a feat that even the most practiced criminal/s would have found hard to have done so successfully without hours and days of prior planning and without resources immediately available and as immediately disposable.
I have read on various threads where others have interpreted every single look, word, action, article of clothing, even physical appearance and bodily response of the suspects and their families as being something evil and suspicious. People have used the term ugly to describe Jorans mother, and made demeaning comments and suppositions about Paulus perspiration (Beth might never have seen a person sweat like that but it seems she leads a very privileged life as do many of her family. I have seen men and women sweat profusely when worried, sad, stressed, or just because of diabetes or another illness. Women wake up at night wringing wet during menopause for heavens sake). Unkind words have been used by many to describe the personalities of people they dont even know. How is that helping this case?
I have seen mothers and fathers who, when protecting their children, have become so irate and opposite of their normal behavior that it has surprised all who even know them well. To judge a parent is evil because of his desire to protect his child is just not kind. Just as it has been unkind in the past to quickly judge family members (ala Jessica Lundsfords father and grandparents) when a child disappears. But, on this case what makes one fathers aggression on behalf of finding his child more appropriate than anothers in protecting his child? The families are all suffering. The Twitty family has the deepest anguish over the loss of their daughter, of course but the Van der Sloots lives have been destroyed, and the Kalpoe family is also devastated.
So far the only reality here is truly because the teens in this situation have all done things they were told not to do, (however innocent and typical). Now their families are suffering and tangled in a horrible tragedy of fear, anger, hatred, financial devastation, character assassination, and possibly crime. It is almost Shakespearean. If there is anything to be learned from this I hope it is that children everywhere understand the importance of obeying their parents, and that constant, responsible supervision be provided when our children are away from home and inexperienced in taking care of themselves.
One person wrote in reply me once that we are all outsiders to the Twitty family so how can I make statements about them (when I expressed my concerns that their approach had become somewhat beyond being resolute and appeared to be more expecting of worldwide vengeance for the suspects). I wondered how, then, can anyone here make statements about any of the families or family members involved in this case? We are certainly outsiders to all those being scrutinized so hurtfully. So, in turn to that persons question: how can they judge the van der Sloot or Kalpoe families and their behavior? And, how can anyone here feel that their own anger, name-calling, argumentative comments against the suspects and others (who dont echo the same agenda they are supporting) can bring about anything constructive?
For example: If someone came to my door in the middle of the night to hotly and haughtily question my child I would also probably be defensive and tell my son he did not have to answer anyone but the police, as Mr. VDS said to his son. Then, the next day it should not be so surprising if I were not out assisting the people who questioned my son; who publicly said they found him suspicious and made other unkind remarks, and subsequently embarked on a campaign against him. Rather I would be doing what I felt I needed to do to continue to protect my own child who had become a target and I believed wrongfully so.
And, as most all other parents, I would also be very angry with my own child for disobeying and leaving the house and becoming involved in something that even led to the suspicions, or gave a preponderance of guilt, even if innocent of any criminal act. I might not accept all my child said as truth, but to be sure, in any event, I would be focused on my own child and making use of whatever necessary to protect him in the event that he was being truthful.
Would any of us immediately accept the notions of someone unknown to us who insinuated that our child was guilty of a crime without wanting to protect our child against the flames of that anguished parent? If, not knowing anything for certain, and being pounced upon in the middle of the night, wouldnt many of us retaliate with a bit of anger and consternation? Still, I would also have compassion for the other family -- as Mrs. Van der Sloot certainly demonstrated, and appeared entirely sincere, and as the Kalpoes mother displayed when also interviewed.
Recently, on another thread, I have seen where some are finally advocating a prayer thread. I mentioned that prayer was the best we could all do when I posted that comment on the third Natalee thread. It was my hope we could all spend more time in prayer than in anger. I tried to do that throughout the weeks rather than spend time posting. If the energy that is being spent filling the air with hateful comments would be turned to positive energy of prayer and support and wishes that the Twitty family would find peace, I believe that would be more helpful.
I have also stated that at first I admitted to jumping on the bandwagon against Joran, Aruba, etc. But I soon realized I could be wrong, things just did not seem to uphold the theories being presented. So, I tried early on to bring some objectivity to the discussion and not focus on rumors or suppositions. I had hoped that when a statement was made it could be presented as fact, not hearsay or someones spin on what the real statement was. I posted a comment to that effect. I felt objectivity was most needed. Mainly because I feel that the Free Republic is the one place where we have found that people mostly try to deal with truth and facts, not as is happening on this case - not, as we have often criticized the media for spinning things, to suit their own agendas - and not a place where ones desire to argue overrides anothers desire to approach things calmly and objectively and introduce their own thoughts.
These are just threads of discussion with no or little impact on the case itself and serve no purpose other than to allow us to air our thoughts and have an audience for our say so. Thus, all thoughts should be given courtesy and have the same right without challenge that is just for the sake of arguing or making another look foolish, or demeaning someone elses thoughts or questions. Challenge should be to offer clarity or edification. I believe that is the objective of this forum, not nasty bickering as we see on so many other forums and that we all deplore.
But many seem so sure of their own suppositions in this case that they react as though only their thoughts are correct and must be believed, even though they have no more evidence or knowledge than any others who question them. This is not a case where anyone should be so insistent that one is right just because they want to be credited for being right when that person has no ability to know the truth. We all only know what we read or hear through the media, the Internet or another second-hand supply. Only Natalee and whoever took her (if that is what happened) know the truth.
I am not saying that Joran is innocent. No one knows, for certain, who is guilty. At this point all we really know for sure (because others have testified seeing them) is that he was in the casino, Natalee was at the casino and he and Natalee did talk, he did meet her at C & Cs, and they did leave together along with the Kalpoe brothers. How/even when they originally met, how they arranged to meet again at C & Cs, how and why she got into their car, where they went after, and what they did are still not certain and have been disputed even by Natalees classmates in various interviews, and even the suspects. We can only surmise - and just because we have feelings about things does not make them so.
A myriad of other things could have occurred. A number of other people could have been involved. Or none, and Natalee could be somewhere she wants to be. But in the more likely case that she was abducted, all the focus on a few suspects just might have given the real perp/s the opportunity to escape, undetected, with Natalee and now be somewhere far from the eye of the police and public.
Or, worse yet, all the focus on this might have caused a more horrible ending of Natalees life if abducted, than might have been the original intention. It just might have made her too hot to handle - to keep hidden or even delivered to another planned location where, possibly, she might have had the chance in the future to escape or be seen by others.
Yes, I am an advocate of media enlightenment and attention in such cases. It is through their efforts and The Amber Alert system (the best tool that has been introduced in ages) that many have been found. But, overdoing the focus ignores the possibility that attention on one suspect might play right into the hands of the true perp and while we are all focused in only one direction, opportunities for other things to occur, out of that spotlight are intensified.
We should never be so narrowly focused. We should never be led mainly by suppositions and gut feelings of a few, even family members who have been so devastated and are suffering beyond the average persons comprehension. The media should always remain entirely objective and question outside the arena of emotional attention and popular theory. I believe many who are now so closely involved should have learned that lesson well with Jennifer Wilbanks. (Not to insinuate with any certainty that Natalee is a runaway.) However, during that case many willingly gave up their objectivity and succumbed to the desired beliefs of her family. The media and general acceptance of only one viewpoint led everyone astray and has resounded in both cases. Could it be occurring again?