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To: Campion

"Believe it or not, English is the language that has become the stumbling block for many of us, because the prayers of the Mass in their official English translations do not say what they are supposed to say."

Spot on. Take two of the most beloved prayers, the Anima Christi and the Salve Regina.

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!
Our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us; and
after this our exile show unto us the
blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.
Pray for us, O holy Mother of God
That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Every time I'd finish a rosary, it would be embarrassing to me to say these words. I think this was because they just sounded so trite, so poorly written. Insufficiently reverent and weighty, perhaps.

Then I started fooling around with a bit of Latin.

Wow, what a difference.

Salve Regína, Mater misericórdiæ;
Vita dulcédo, et spes nostra, salve.
Ad te Clamámus éxsules fílii Evæ;
Ad te Suspirámus, geméntes et flentes in hac lacrimárum valle.
Eia ergo, Advocáta nostra,
Illos tuos misericórdes óculos ad nos convérte:
Et Iesum, benedíctum fructum ventris tui,
Nobis post hoc exsílium osténde.
O clemens, o pia, o dulcis Virgo María.
V/. Ora pro nobis, Sancta Dei Génetrix.
R/. Ut digni efficiámur promissionibus Christi.
Amen.

Now, I'm not qualified to offer any kind of authoritative translation, but I'd like to try and convey a sense of what I mean. Scholars please be tolerant.

Salutation, Queen, merciful mother, our sweet life and our hope. I greet you.
To you we cry, we banished children of Eve.
To you we sigh, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.
Therefore, our advocate, turn your merciful eyes upon us,
And to the blessed fruit of your womb, Jesus,
Lead us when our exile is ended.
Gentle, pious, kind Virgin Mary
Pray for us, Holy Mother of God
That we may become worthy of the promises of Christ.
Amen.

I know that those who have actually studied Latin will find lots to criticize there. I'm not even sure about the comma placement in “vita dulcedo, et spes nostra.”

But how did “salve Regina” become “Hail Holy Queen?” Where did the “holy” come from? And how did “exsules fílii Evæ” become “poor banished children of Eve?” Where did the “poor” come from? How did they get "most gracious" out of "advocata nostra?"

Ad te clamamus is “To thee do we cry,” but ad te suspiramus becomes, “To thee do we send up our sighs.”

Looking at, “Et Iesum, benedíctum fructum ventris tui, Nobis post hoc exsílium osténde.” I guess that “Show us Jesus after our exile” is a reasonable translation of that, but perhaps a scholar can explain why that “osténde” does not have connotations of “point out,” which would imply leading us to Him.

I'm sorry if this offends anybody, but I don't think the accepted translation could have been any worse if they had been deliberately trying to turn it into schlock. It looks as though it had been done by an exceptionally overemotional and literarily talentless 14-year-old girl.

I've run across that sort of thing quite frequently since I started playing around with Latin. In the Apostles' Creed Our Lord “descendit ad infernos.” No weaseling around there. But in the missal everybody reads from at Mass He doesn't do that at all.

All my life Our Lord was crucified between two thieves. Two common criminals. One day at Mass suddenly we were told that he was crucified between two “revolutionaries.”

Is that the smoke of Satan, or the smoke of Fidel's cigar? Or is there any difference?

Here's a schlocky translation of the Anima Christi:

> Soul of Christ, make me holy
> Body of Christ, be my salvation
> Blood of Christ, let me drink your wine
> Water flowing from the side of Christ, wash me clean
> Passion of Christ, strengthen me
> Kind Jesus, hear my prayer
> Hide me within your wounds
> And keep me close to you
> Defend me from the evil enemy
> And call me at the hour of my death
> To the fellowship of your saints
> That I might sing your praise with them
> for all eternity, Amen."

Oh, my.

Anima Christi, sanctifica me.
Corpus Christi, salva me.
Sanguis Christi, inebria me.
Aqua lateris Christi, lava me.
Passio Christi, conforta me.
O bone Iesu, exaudi me.
Intra tua vulnera absconde me.
Ne permittas me separari a te.
Ab hoste maligno defende me.
In hora mortis meae voca me.
Et iube me venire ad te,
Ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te
In saecula saeculorum.

Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
Body of Christ, save me. (Save me from my own sinful nature, save me from eternal damnation, save me from doing things that offend you, save me from the Evil One.)
Blood of Christ, inebriate me. (Make me drunk with Love of you, drunk with Your love, drunk with contemplation of Your Mercy, Your suffering, Your Sacrifice, Your Victory, Your Resurrection, Your Majesty and Glory.)
Water from the side of Christ, wash me. (Wash away my sins and sinfulness.)
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
Good Jesus, hear me!
Within Your wounds hide me (From the Evils of Satan and the world)
And let me not be separated from You.
From the hosts of Evil defend me.
At the hour of my death call me and bid me come to You,
That together with Your saints I may praise You for all eternity. Amen

I really don't know why people today seem to have such a hard time with "Sanguis Christi, inebria me." Perhaps it's because mystical experiences and transports of rapture are thought by so many to be medieval and unsophisticated. In my humble estimation, this is a plea for religious ecstasy of a sort that can be likened to inebriation.

And above all, in Latin these prayers are *poems,* with rhyming and meter. They scan, they flow, they are art as well as prayer.

Just as good in English? Ask a Frenchman if Proust is "just as good" in English. Check out a Japanese "translation" of Shakespeare some time.

Translations are never "just as good" (In accordance with that well-known universal law, "If something is 'just as good,' it ain't.")


138 posted on 06/20/2005 1:55:09 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc

I agree that the translation of Anima Christi which you post is a terrible one. But I've never heard the likes of it before in my life, after spending years notorious dioceses such as Boston, New York, Rockville Center, Albany, Scranton and Richmond. What I've heard is much close to your retranslation, and is what is usually published in the nearly uniquitous "Oregon Press" missals, hymnals and missallettes which are the bane of all conservatives with good taste.

As to the Salve Regina:

Show us UNTO does a pretty good job of reflecting connoting "pointing out," if you ask me.

Quibbling for "Salutation" over "hail" seems silly. And while "holy" is not a separate word in "Salve regina," the use of Salve suggests holy. Call it a poetic lisence, helpful for meter, that is 100% proper.

As for "gracious" and "poor" being added: Yes, they were. So what? They help the poetry, and they are correct.

As for the ICEL translation of the Apostle's Creed: I agree. I can't wait for Una Voce to be implemented.


175 posted on 06/20/2005 10:43:58 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dsc; Campion

I prefer this somewhat free poetic translation with its rhyming meter:

Soul of Christ, be my sanctification
Body of Christ, be my salvation
Blood of Christ, fill all my veins
Water of Christ's side, wash out my stains
Passion of Christ, my strength be
O good Jesus, listen to me
In your wounds I fain would hide
Ne'er to be parted from your side
Guard me should the Foe assail me
Call me when my life shall fail me
Bid me come to Thee above
With Thy Saints to sing Thy Love
World without end. Amen.


191 posted on 06/21/2005 6:29:15 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: dsc; Campion
But how did “salve Regina” become “Hail Holy Queen?” Where did the “holy” come from?

Hail in archaic English means Salvation, Saves, etc. "Hail" comes from the German "Heil". "Heaven" in German is "Heilland", while "Holy" is "Heilige", and "Salvation" is "Heil", as is "Being Saved".

"Salve Regina" then means essentially "Save us O Queen" or "O Queen you are our Salvation". Anyone who can save is of course holy, since salvation is holiness. The use of "Hail" instead of "Salvation" keeps the translation from becoming tenditious. "Hail holy Queen" is entirely appropriate.

Incidentally, a proper understanding of the first line of the Salve Regina also exposes the true anti-Christ import of the Nazi phrases "Heil Hitler" and "Sieg Heil".

198 posted on 06/21/2005 7:16:38 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: dsc

A literal translation of the Salve Regina would be less fluid in English. Remember, too, that this is 'devotional,' not dogmatic...


246 posted on 06/21/2005 10:20:52 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: dsc

Bravo, I completely agree. I've preferred praying and saying the Rosary in Latin for a long time now.


287 posted on 06/21/2005 1:34:07 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum)
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