Bush says Cold War captivity one of great wrongs

NY Times ^ | May 7, 2005 | REUTERS

[neverdem]

Filed at 1:34 p.m. ET

RIGA (Reuters) - President Bush denounced Soviet Cold War rule of eastern Europe as ``one of the greatest wrongs of history'' on Saturday in a jab at Moscow two days before celebrations of the 1945 victory over Hitler.

Bush, visiting Latvia before the ceremonies in Moscow marking 60 years since the end of World War II in Europe, also held up the three Baltic states as examples of democratic reform since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

He said the end of the war brought liberty from fascism for many in Germany but meant the ``iron rule of another empire'' for the Baltic states -- Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia -- and nations from Poland to Romania.

Bush admitted the United States shared some responsibility for the Cold War division of Europe after the 1945 Yalta accord between Russia, the United States and Britain.

``Once again, when powerful governments negotiated, the freedom of small nations was somehow expendable,'' he said. ``Yet this attempt to sacrifice freedom for the sake of stability left a continent divided and unstable.

``The captivity of millions in central and eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history,'' he said in a speech at Riga's guildhall.

The three Baltic states joined both NATO and the European Union last year.

Bush's visit to Riga has angered Russia by reviving tensions about the Soviet occupation when Moscow is focusing on celebrating the end of World War II, a conflict that cost 27 million Soviet lives.

Russian President Vladimir Putin dismissed calls by the Baltic states for an apology for Soviet rule and accused them on Saturday of trying to cover up past Nazi collaboration.

BUSH MEETS PUTIN

The differing versions of history may make for frictions when Bush meets Putin in Moscow on Sunday and Monday.

Putin insists the Red Army was a liberator, not an oppressor, of Eastern Europe.

``Our people not only defended their homeland, they liberated 11 European countries,'' Putin said on Saturday after laying a wreath at a monument to Russia's war dead.

In a recent state of the nation speech he bemoaned the demise of the Soviet Union as ``the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.'' He has also said Washington should not try to export its own brand of democracy.

Bush said Russia's leaders had made ``great progress'' in the past 15 years.

``In the long run it is the strength of Russian democracy that will determine the greatness of Russia and I believe the Russian people value their freedom and will settle for no less,'' he said.

``As we mark a victory of six decades ago, we are mindful of a paradox. For much of Germany, defeat led to freedom. For much of Eastern and Central Europe, victory brought the iron rule of another empire.''

He also held up the Baltics as examples of successful shifts to democracy, a theme he stressed for nations including Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Belarus.

``These are extraordinary times that we're living in and the three Baltic countries are capable of helping Russia and other countries in this part of the world see the benefits of what it means to live in a free society,'' Bush told a news conference.

But Bush did not back pleas by the Baltic countries for an apology from Russia. ``My hope is that we are able to move on,'' he said.

He later flew to the Netherlands where he will spend Saturday night.

The presidents of Lithuania and Estonia will boycott the May 9 ceremonies in Moscow. Georgia's president will also stay away, but Latvia's president will attend.

All three Baltic nations, whose combined population is now about 6 million, were occupied by the Soviet Union in June 1940 after a pact between Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia which divided up spheres of influence in East Europe.

In 1941, German troops occupied the Baltics and remained there until the end of the war when Soviet troops returned and ruled with an iron fist. The collapse of communism enabled the Baltic states to win their independence in 1991.

Bush also urged free elections in Belarus, which shares borders with Lithuania and Latvia, and ruled out any secret U.S deal with Moscow allowing President Alexander Lukashenko to remain in power. ``We don't make secret deals,'' he said.

Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga wrote in the Washington Post on Saturday: ``Russia would gain immensely by ... expressing its genuine regret for the crimes of the Soviet regime.

``Until Russia does so ... its relations with its immediate neighbors will remain uneasy at best.''

But writing in the French daily Le Figaro, Putin dismissed calls for an apology and accused the Baltic countries of trying to justify their own government's ``discriminatory and reprehensible policy'' toward their Russian-speaking populations.

Police detained about 20 protesters from Latvia's big Russian minority after they hurled smoke bombs in a demonstration against Bush.

``Bush is a horror,'' said protest leader Beness Aija. Posters in another demonstration said: ``Stop the war in Iraq.''

But many Latvians welcome Bush. ``It's important to recognize the struggle that our fathers had against communists and the Soviet Union,'' said Ugis Senbergs, a 50-year-old architect.

[Destro]

The neo-nazi allied oranges (not all are but neo-nazis make up the Orange coalition)? a neo-nazi propaganda poster like yourself would like them.

[lizol]

May I suggest jb6 - first check, then say "never".

RONA

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Russian National Liberation Army, also known as Kaminski's Brigade - was a name given to a group of volunteer forces organized by Russian engineer Bronislaw Kaminski in the Russian region of Bryansk during the Second World War, while under Nazi German occupation. The unit had up to 10,000 men, volunteers and those recruited via draft, who fought against Soviet partisans and controlled a region called the "Lokot Republic" under the suzerainty of Nazi Germany.

The unit was later converted into a "Russian SS unit" by the German command, part of which participated in the suppression of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944. Its leader, now SS General Kaminski, was executed by the Gestapo, which blamed him for permitting his men to commit atrocities in Warsaw. Kaminski's men were given a fabricated story, claiming that he was killed by Polish partisans. Responding to the initial waves of disbelief, the Gestapo ditched Kaminski's car, shot it up with a machine gun, and smeared it with goose blood, providing that as evidence.

RONA is frequently confused with ROA, a different formation of Russian volunteers fighting in alliance with Nazi Germany.

The Patch and Anthem of the RONA

We shall not be slaves!
To the fight with the enemy we are ready day and night.
Through clouds and flames our people's flag
we shall with a strong hand carry.

Through an open and grief stricken road
in the midst of smoke and battery fire
in action and battle we go with prayer
to the freedom of our Russia!

Who believes, who dares, who's blood is enflamed
who has not forgotten oppression and shame
those are tied together with great revenge
for the ashes of our family's graves.

With pain we have paid for that which we loved
for the torturings of our fathers and children
We have not forgiven them, nor forgotten the shame
of those days suffocated with suffering.

In tight columns march our legions
to fight, for a great revenge
The millions carry on our bright flags
the freedom and honor of our people.

Through an open and grief stricken road
in the midst of smoke and battery fire
in action and battle we go with prayer
to the freedom of our Russia!


The patch of the RONA forces.


A group of RONA troops during the Warsaw Uprising


The soldiers of the Russian National Liberation Army in the forest


Btw. - I think you all should chill out a little bit.

[Grzegorz 246]

"The Soviets did not ask the Poles to rise up "

You are wrong once again my child.

[lizol]

The Americans didn't ask the French to rise up in Paris either.
But when the French did (more or less at the same time as the Poles in Warsaw) - they sent their troops to support that uprising. Because they wanted to liberate France, not to take it over.

[Grzegorz 246]

You are right :)

[Destro]

Getting misfits or starving POWs to join the ethnic SS brigades is not the same thing as being a nation acively allied to the Germans. It is like saying Norway was an ally of Germany because of Quisling.

[Destro]

I am correct the Poles rose up without Soviet urging - as the Poles begged for help THEN the Soviets egged them on with a promise of help. So I am correct you are wrong.

[lizol]

Btw. - Grzegozr is right, I forgot about it.

On July 26, 1944, the Polish Government-in-Exile authorized General Bór-Komorowski and its Home Delegate – J S Jankowski, to commence armed action with the aim of liberating Warsaw. Soviet radio-stations were also calling for an uprising. With news of the Soviet forces approaching the city, on July 31, 1944, General Bór-Komorowski gave the order to rise up. This order was given to Colonel Antoni Chrusciel (pseudonym: “Monter’) who issued an order setting the time of the uprising to commence at 17.00 hours on August 1, 1944.

[Destro]

The oranges are a far left commie and neo-nazi alliance. Yushchenko is as pink as they come. The Blue Ukranians were the right wing nationalists.

[Grzegorz 246]

No, you are wrong once again. I'm not going to wast my time educating you once again. You may find it on your own.

[Grzegorz 246]

Haha So now you are defending Nazis ?

[Grzegorz 246]

Oh, you may read it in #229. I'm sure that you will start screaming that this is Polish revisionism, but you may find it in my other sources.

[Destro]

I am not wrong - the Soviets did not order the Polish Home army to rise up - the Polish Home Army rose up ion order to block any Soviet claims to Poland.

[lizol]

Jb6 wrote, that there were no Russian SS trooops.

And I just wanted to show him, that he'd made a mistake.

And you suddenly jump out with some explanation which is out of the topic.

But I forgot - as RusIvan wrote in post # 118 - you're just "a cold intellegent and independent watcher who don't like propaganda pro-russian or anti-russian".

[lizol]

Ping to #229

[billbears]

I wish he'd use the same language about the domestic slavery FDR caused with his 'New Deal' and SS and Medicare and Medicaid and whatever other million government agencies we still have to deal with today. FDR deepened the great depression, and nearly destroyed the values of the country with his socialism.

Well with Bush's current advisors and speechwriters, you won't hear that anytime soon. Beside the fact, Bush is some far to the middle (if not left of it) I doubt he would see the problem with anything FDR instituted

[Grzegorz 246]

The Soviets indeed did not order the Polish Home army to rise up, because they didn't have any rights or abilities to give them orders, but they were calling for uprising, so...

"I am correct the Poles rose up without Soviet urging "

You are wrong.

[Destro]

The Warsaw Uprising broke out at 5 p.m. on August 1, 1944 at the order of the Home Army Headquarters. The Home Army (Armia Krajowa – AK) was an underground organisation operating in the German-occupied Poland during World War II. It was a legal successor to the Polish Army, representing at the same time part of the Polish Armed Forces in the country. The Home Army's Commander-in-Chief was General Tadeusz Komorowski, pseudo Bór; the Commander of the Army's Warsaw District was Colonel, then General Antoni Chruœciel, pseudo Monter. The military goal of the uprising was to liberate German-occupied Warsaw with the Army's own forces and to save the city from destruction, and the inhabitants from mass extermination, at the moment of the front line passing through the capital. The political goal was to create conditions for the take-over of power in Warsaw by the legal authorities of the Polish Republic represented by the London-based government and president. The issue was very important given that the Soviet Union, whose army was, in the course of fighting with German forces, seizing Polish territory, did not recognise the London-based government, nor did it maintain any diplomatic relations with the Polish authorities after the Katyñ crimes had been disclosed by the Germans. Moreover, wishing to bring the liberated Poland under its influence, the Soviet Union supported the establishment of pro-Moscow Polish authorities, the Polish Committee of National Liberation. The Soviet Union also used various forms of repression, and even military actions, to crush the London-subordinated military troops and Polish local administration coming out the underground in the liberated parts of the country. ... Up to September 10, 1944, the Soviet armies, which were massed barely a few kilometres outside Warsaw, remained completely impassive, giving the Luftwaffe freedom of the skies to destroy the city with impunity. Soviet propaganda described the uprising as a fracas obstructing Red Army operations. Between September 3 and 6, the Germans pushed the insurgents out of Powisle, and the struggle for Czerniaków commenced on September 12. It was only on September 10 that the Russians began to move into action against the Germans in the Warsaw region. Some supplies were air dropped and Soviet fighter planes began to chase German bombers from the skies above Warsaw. ... This persuaded the Home Army leadership to discontinue the initiated capitulation negotiations. In the prevailing circumstances, the half-hearted Soviet aid to the Uprising helped to extend the struggle which was only weakening both the Germans and the Poles to Soviet advantage. In the period September 13 to 15, the Soviet armies and detachments of the 1st Polish Army subordinated to the Soviets, pushed the Germans out of the right bank of the city. After a long period of waiting for Soviet acquiescence, an air drop operation mounted by 107 American Flying Fortresses which then landed in the Ukraine, took place on September 18. Between September 16 and 19, 1st Polish Army detachments made landings in several points of left bank Warsaw but due to inadequate Russian support, these bridgeheads were unsustainable.