Posted on 06/15/2004 6:53:50 PM PDT by RnMomof7
| GOL | | | ||
|
The "World" of John 3:16 Does Not Mean "All Men Without Exception" -
Whenever anyone challenges the confession of God’s particular, exclusive love for His elect by quoting John 3:16, we must regretfully conclude that he holds the doctrinal position set forth above and wishes to confess it publicly, in order thus to overthrow the Reformed doctrine of predestination, limited atonement, total depravity, effectual grace, and the preservation of saints (which is only an elaborate way of saying, salvation by grace alone — the gospel). The word, world, in the gospel of John does not mean ‘all men without exception.’ Proof: John 1:29: "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." Did Christ by His death take away the sin of all men without exception? If He did, all men without exception shall be saved.This last text points out that the word, world, in the gospel of John does not always have the same meaning. In John 3:16, the world is loved by God, with a love that gives the Son of God for its sake; in John 17:9, the Son of God refuses to pray for the world. The saints must not come to an understanding of the world of John 3:16 by a quick assumption, but by careful interpretation of the passage in the light of the rest of Scripture. What then is the truth about the world of John 3:16? Loved by God with Divine, almighty, effectual, faithful, eternal love, the world is saved. All of it! All of them! Redeemed by the precious, worthy, powerful, effectual death of the Son of God, the world is saved. All of it! All of them! The salvation of all the persons included in the world of John 3:16 is due solely to the effectual love of God and the redeeming death of Christ for them; whereas the persons who perish were never loved by God, nor redeemed by Christ, that is, they are not part of the world of John 3:16. The world of John 3:16 (Greek: kosmos, from which comes our English word, cosmos, referring to our "orderly, harmonious, systematic universe’s) is the creation made by God in the beginning, now disordered by sin, with the elect from all nations, now by nature children of wrath even as the others, as the core of it. As regards its people, the world of John 3:16 is the new humanity in Jesus Christ, the last Adam (I Corinthians 15:45). John calls this new human race "the world" in order to show, and emphasize, that it is not from the Jewish people alone, but from all nations and peoples (Revelation 7:9). The people who make up the world of John 3:16 are all those, and those only, who will become believers (whosoever believeth"); and it is the elect who believe (Acts 13:48). This explanation of John 3:16 is not some strange, new interpretation dreamed up by latter-day hyper-Calvinists, but the explanation that has been given in the past by defenders of the Faith we call Reformed, that is, by those who confessed the sovereign grace of God in the salvation of sinners. This was the explanation given by Frances Turretin, Reformed theologian in Geneva (1623-1687): The love treated of in John 3:16. .. cannot be universal towards all and every one, but special towards a few... because the end of that love which God intends is the salvation of those whom He pursues with such love.. . If therefore God sent Christ for that end, that through Him the world might be saved, He must either have failed of His end, or the world must necessarily be saved in fact. But it is certain that not the whole world, but only those chosen out of the world are saved; therefore, to them properly has this love reference... Why then should not the world here be taken not universally for individuals, but indefinitely for anyone, Jews as well as Gentiles, without distinction of nation, language and condition. that He may be said to have loved the human race, inasmuch as He was unwilling to destroy it entirely but decreed to save some certain persons Out of it, not only from one people as before, but from all indiscriminately, although the effects of that love should not be extended to each individual, but only to some certain ones, viz, those chosen out of the world? (Theological Institutes)About the word, world, in Scripture, Abraham Kuyper, the Dutch theologian (1837-1920) wrote: For if there is anything that is certain from a somewhat more attentive reading of Holy Scripture, and that may be held as firmly established, it is, really, the irrefutable fact, that the word, world, in Holy Scripture, means "all men" only as a very rare exception and almost always means something entirely different.Essentially the same is the interpretation of Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952): Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. "God so loved the world." Many suppose that this means, The entire human race. But "the entire human race" includes all mankind from Adam till the close of earth’s history: it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, lived here "having no hope and without God in the world," and therefore passed out into eternity of woe. If God "loved" them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares "Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways" (Acts 14:16). Scripture declares that "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Rom. 1:28). To Israel God said, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2). In view of these plain passages who will be so foolish as to insist that God in the past loved all mankind! The same applies with equal force to the future . . . But the objector comes back to John 3:16 and says, "World means world. "True, but we have shown that "the world" does not mean the whole human family. The fact is that "the world" is used in a general way.. . Now the first thing to note in connection with John 3:16 is that our Lord was there speaking to Nicodemus, a man who believed that God’s mercies were confined to his own nation. Christ there announced that God’s love in giving His Son had a larger object in view, that it flowed beyond the boundary of Palestine, reaching out to "regions beyond." In other words, this was Christ’s announcement that God had a purpose of grace toward Gentiles as well as Jews. "God so loved the world," then, signifies, God’s love is international in its scope. But does this mean that God loves every individual among the Gentiles? Not necessarily, for as we have seen the term "world" is general rather than specific, relative rather than absolute. . . the "world" in John 3:16 must, in the final analysis refer to the world of God’s people. Must we say, for there is no other alternative solution. It cannot mean the whole human race, for one half of the race was already in hell when Christ came to earth. It is unfair to insist that it means every human being now living, for every other passage in the New Testament where God’s love is mentioned limits it to His own people — search and see! The objects of God’s love in John 3:16 are precisely the same as the objects of Christ’s love in John 13:1: "Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His time was come, that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end." We may admit that our interpretation of John 3:16 is no novel one invented by us, but one almost uniformly given by the Reformers and Puritans, and many others since them. (The Sovereignty of God)We can only marvel that Reformed men and women are so soon removed from the truth of God’s sovereign, particular, electing love in Jesus Christ, which truth has not only been confessed "by the Reformers and Puritans" before them, but has also been confessed by the Reformed church herself in her Creed, the Canons of Dordt. Who hath bewitched them? As for us, we are determined, out of love for the truth, to oppose the lie of a love of God in Jesus Christ for all men without exception; to try to rescue those who have been taken captive by this doctrine; and to preach and testify, near and far, in season and out of season, a love of God for the world that saves the world, a death of the Son of God that redeemed the world, a purpose of God for the saving of sinners that is accomplished, and a salvation of enslaved sinners by the sovereign power of the grace of God alone — for the comfort of every believer and the glory of God. This article was printed from Grace Online Library - www.graceonlinelibrary.org Please note that every attempt has been made to obtain the proper permission to use all of the material posted on our site. If you intend on reproducing this printed article, you may need to obtain the proper permission. |
||
TDNT Reference Root Word TDNT - 3:868,459 probably from the base of 2865 Part of Speech n m Outline of Biblical Usage
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
Part of the anger of the Jews at Christ as He was teaching that they were no longer the special children children of God.
What they saw a pagans, heathens, filthy Samaritans , gentile nations ,were now a part of the plan of God.
When Jesus and the apostles said the word "kosmos " they knew exactly what was being taught. It was a rebuke and a denial of the continuation of their special status.
They were no longer to be separated and set apart from other nations by their 660 laws , That was a thought they despised
Kosmos is more commonly used not as all the world , but specific parts or people in it
Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Jhn 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.
I think we can agree that the word world in these examples are not the totality of the things or people here on the earth
"Behold the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of [everyone]."
So then all men without exception are saved correct?
"In the debate over the extent of the atonement, Calvinists will point to Scriptures connecting Christ's death to a specific people: his sheep (John 10:11); his friends (John 15:13); "many" (Heb. 9:28). Arminians will produce passages indicating that Jesus died for the "whole world" (1 John 2:2); "all" (2 Cor. 5:15); "every man" (Heb. 2:9)."
"These texts can be harmonized when we consider that the redemptive benefits of Christ's death are both specific and universal. God has placed the life-giving fountain of Christ's blood in His Church. Our Lord "loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Eph. 5:25). The Church was "bought with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). That makes the atonement of Christ specific; it was for His Church."
"But the atonement is universal in the sense that the Church's gates are wide open to "everyone who calls" (Rom. 10:13), to "him who is thirsty" (Rev. 21:6), to "all you who are weary and burdened" (Matt. 11:28). The invitation to believe, be baptized and enter the Church extends to "every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev. 5:9). In that sense, the atonement is universal and available to all."
"Or, looking at in another way, Christ's blood is "the blood of the covenant" (Matt. 26:28). Jesus died for those in the covenant of grace, not for those outside of it. Is that fatalism? Not at all. Anyone may enter that covenant by becoming a Christian. It is open-ended. The atonement, therefore, is both limited and universal. It is both specific and general."
(Excerpted from: click)
Notice also that the sentence DOES place a qualification on salvation: belief. But notice that the condition belongs to the human, and not (directly) to God. (Of course, the human belongs to God, and does not do what God does not ordain him to do.)
Thanks you make my point here. Jesus saves no one, men save themselves
Now, I'm not advocating the heresy that man is the agent of his own salvation: it is true that no man can believe unless the Holy Spirit moves him to faith. But this verse, and many, many others present believers as making a decision, not being inert receivers.
So then you would say the Holy Spirit is a failure in 50% or more attempts?
if God REALLY wanted the whole world saved, wouldn't he try harder?
The verse could say, "...so that those to whom faith has been given..." It does not. It says, "...so that whosoever believes..."
And the bible tells us that God gives each man a different measure of Faith ..it sounds like maybe He is picking who gets enough grace .As a Calvinist I believe that Faith is a gift .
Did NONE of the world Know him ? Or only some of the world not know him
Joh 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Does Jesus take away the sin of the entire world?
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. Is the entire world saved through Him?
Joh 3:19 "And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. Joh 4:42 and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."
Is Jesus saviour of THE ENTIRE WORLD (your preferred reading of Kosmos)
Joh 6:14 When therefore the people saw the sign which He had performed, they said, "This is of a truth the Prophet who is to come into the world." Joh 6:33 "For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
Does Jesus give life TO THE ENTIRE WORLD?
I think I have made my point.
If you choose to have the definition of the world be all the world without exception...you need to become a Unitarian /Universalist
We'll have to agree to disagree.
That is not what the bible says or teaches.
We,like God can not love evil or sin.We are not to have fellowship with darkness. We are to be fruit selectors and disfellowship those in sin from the church . We are not to allow false teachers into our homes
I know that these things are inconvenient to those that think they save people or draw people by THEIR love , but it is what the word of Gods says .
The commission says we are to present the gospel , not love those that hate God.
Is that Gods word or yours AG ?
God would not even grant Esau repentance .
You show me your verse and I will show you mine
****No, I didn't miss the context. God indeed does love everyone unconditionally without exception. He even loves His enemies. ***
GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY” Psalms 5:5
THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:
Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM.”
Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... [send plagues, famine, drought, destructive armies, wild beasts who shall devour your children, pestilence, captivity in a cruel land...] And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU.”
Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.”
Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD.”
Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.” (In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)
Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it [people sacrificing to devils - v.17], HE ABHORRED THEM...”
Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH [at rebellious men]: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... [and Christ shall] break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”
Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors.”
Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH.”
Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness...”
Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER.”
Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL.”
Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE.”
Proverbs 3:32-33: “For the froward is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD... The CURSE OF THE LORD is in the house of the wicked: but He blesseth the habitation of the just.”
Proverbs 6:16-19: “These six things doth THE LORD HATE: yea, seven are AN ABOMINATION TO HIM... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among the brethren.”
Proverbs 16:5: “Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.”
Proverbs 17:5: “He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION TO THE LORD.”
Proverbs 22:14: “The soul of strange women is a deep pit: HE THAT IS ABHORRED OF THE LORD shall fall therein.”
Jeremiah 17:5: “Thus saith the Lord, CURSED BE THE MAN that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.”
Hosea 9:15: “All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of Mine house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE...”
Malachi 1:3-4: “And I HATED ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness...thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and the people AGAINST WHOM THE LORD HATH INDIGNATION FOREVER.”
Romans 9:13: “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.”
I Corinthians 16:22: “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA MARANATHA [which means ACCURSED, THE LORD COMETH].”
James 4:4: “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is ENMITY (or HATRED) WITH GOD? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an ENEMY OF GOD.”
I Peter 3:12: “For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers: but THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THEM THAT DO EVIL.”
Revelation 14:10-11: “[Sinners] shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB; And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...”
Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.
Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.
Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:
Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.
Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among
Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful
*
Psa 11:5**
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
The bible tells us he hates those that do evil
* God hates workers of iniquity. (Psalm 5:5)
* God hates the wicked. (Psalm 11:5)
* God hates those who love violence. (Psalm 11:5)
* God hates the froward. (Proverbs 3:32)
* God hates a proud look. (Proverbs 6:16-17)
* God hates a lying tongue. (Proverbs 6:17)
* God hates hands that shed innocent blood. (Proverbs 6:17)
* God hates a heart that devises wicked imaginations. (Proverbs 6:18)
* God hates feet that are swift in running to mischief. (Proverbs 6:18)
* God hates a false witness who speaks lies. (Proverbs 6:19)
* God hates anyone who sows discord among brethren. (Proverbs 6:19)
* God hates lying lips. (Proverbs 12:22)
* God hates the sacrifices of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:8)
* God hates the ways of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:9)
* God hates the thoughts of the wicked. (Proverbs 15:26)
* God hates the proud in heart. (Proverbs 16:5)
* God hates those who justify the wicked. (Proverbs 17:15)
* God hates those who condemn the just. (Proverbs 17:15)
Displeasing God is simply knowing what is considered unholy, unpure, and unworthy in His sight.
The beatitudes are not a new set of commandments that will earn us our salvation.
They instead tell us the fruit of our salvation, Christ in us
This was a teaching to the disciples , not to the unsaved
They reflect the character of Christ , just as the 10 commandments display the nature of Gods holiness
It is usually helpful to quote scripture as it is written so the context is correct
Rom 9:10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, >that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Predestination and election are clearly taught here .
). And so was God's love on the both of them since they - like all Adamic men - are made in His image (Genesis 2).
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
If you believe the church saves anyone then a point may be valid
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Calvinists agree that EVERYONE that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. The question is who will call? What is the difference between those that call and those that do not?
The bible says that call comes from hearing the gospel (Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God )
Who is it that sees that a man comes under the preaching of the gospel? Who brings the man to repentance and to the call? That is the question
, to "him who is thirsty" (Rev. 21:6), to "all you who are weary and burdened" (Matt. 11:28). The invitation to believe, be baptized and enter the Church extends to "every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev. 5:9). In that sense, the atonement is universal and available to all."
The question stands. What is the difference between one who thirsts ? How is is one is heavy laden with his sin and another is oblivious to it and enjoys it?
Is one smarter ? Luckier? Holier? What is the difference. We say it is the grace and the providence of God. What is your answer?
Keep God in that box at all cost, and remind him how he must act,
Did I say that?
Is the entire world saved through Him?
Did I say that?
Is Jesus saviour of THE ENTIRE WORLD (your preferred reading of Kosmos)
Did I say that? Did I write that that was my "preferred reading" of kosmos?
Does Jesus give life TO THE ENTIRE WORLD?
Did I say that?
I think I have made my point.
No, you have not.
If you choose to have the definition of the world be all the world without exception...you need to become a Unitarian /Universalist
You have done, here, that which is your wont: You PRETEND or IMAGINE that you know what I "prefer," or "choose." Then you argue against that "preference" or "choice." Then you (in essence) say that I am a "Unitarian/Universalist" (that is, a HERETIC). Need I show you again, where the article (which YOU posted earlier) condemns these very things?
DG
p.s. In a little while, I may be able to post my understanding of those verses.
Rom 9:16-18 "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."
God compares Esau to Pharaoh. One has to wonder WHY did God love Jacob and hate Esau? WHY did God raise up Pharaoh? Paul answers that question by proclaiming God will have mercy on whom He desires and He will harden those whom He desires. That is God's prerogative.
If you google for Howard Finster you will find many many more like it. I stole it from one of his sites, so feel free. :-)
"for God is love."
Good question.
Ok tell me what you believe world means , tell me if you believe that Jesus died for the world.
See DG I do not play games. If someone wants to know what I believe I am not ashamed of it, I do not hide or deflect or play games.
They are great, I think I might like one on my profile page
I try never to ignore that Mar
Did he love those he drown in the flood? burned in sodom? the infants he slaughtered in Egypt? The men of Egypt He drown? The people of all the nations He ordered destroyed ?
God is also Justice, His justice is a reflection of His Holiness and righteousness.
I know that God loves all of those that are His.But we also know that he does not love those that are not his.
As Christians you and I know Him as love. That is not a universal truth or understanding .
You know Mar, most of us take for granted the parts of our lives that we know with certainty were not our free will choice.
Most of us have been raised to worship at the altar of free will and choices
The fact is that all choices are made within a restricted set of circumstances
A man jumping off the empire state building can not exercise free will half way down.
Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?
All of these things were predestined by your creator
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
He could have had you born in India to Hindu parents in a low class. You never would have had an opportunity to go to school or to make the life choices you make today. You may never have heard the gospel to be saved.
Acts 17 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
All of our choices are governed by our preferences. Our preferences are part of that same creative process of the Father
Have you read the twin studies?
I read one that blew me away
Two brothers separated at birth. both had the same IQ, Both the same level of education, both loved firefighting (one was a professional and one a volunteer), both married women similar in appearance and both wives were named Jean. Both men had the same number of kids...and both drove red cars
Now these studies are done to show us the effects of genetics.
I know the designer of genetics. And His name is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is the great "I AM"
God has designed each of us in such a way that we will have preferences that will lead us to certain choices.
Because of the fall men will never seek God
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In order for man to choose Christ he must have a preference for Christ. But the fall removed that preference. Man is spiritually dead.He can not choose life
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see
So God gives those that are His a New heart
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
God then gives us a heart that will desire Him.. A heart that can see Him and choose Him...
Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ
I find it so interesting that people resent the idea that God has foreordained our eternity.God placed us in a time and place of His choosing. He saw to it that we heard the gospel . he brings us to it ( The Father draws us to hear it .(Jhn6) If our father so loved us to foreordain our present, how much more important is our eternity?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.