Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
It is. The states in Congress assembled are a federal body.
It's one of the great hypocracies of the war and reconstruction.
Amen. Still, it would be poetic justice to keep Massachusetts out of the Union until they impeach their same-sex marriage judges or help pass an appropriate constitutional amendment.
If Massachusetts were out of the Union, Kerry couldn't be president. Hmmm. Maybe we ought to keep this tactic in reserve against Hillary. ;^)
The following was passed by the Confederate Congress on February 25, 1861:
The Congress of the Confederate States of America do enact, That the peaceful navigation of the Mississippi river is hereby declared free to the citizens of any of the States upon its borders, or upon the borders of its navigable tributaries; and all ships, boats, rafts or vessels may navigate the same, under such regulations as may be established by authority of law, or under such police regulations as may be established by the States within their several jurisdictions.SEC. 2. Be it further enacted, All ships, boats, or vessels, which may enter the waters of the said river within the limits of this Confederacy, from any port or place beyond the said limits, may freely pass with their cargoes to any other port or place beyond the limits of this Confederacy without any duty or hindrance, except light money, pilotage, and other like charges;...
Odd that they did not realize their dependence on the South when they were clamoring to exclude their influence in the territories, ain't it? I mean, after all, Lincoln clearly understood fedgov's dependence on Southern commerce to the extent that he felt he would "have no government!"
I can present the truth as often as you present your falsehoods.
Your entire argument is without visible means of support. It is contrary to all court decisions, all legislative acts and publications, and all known published legal experts.
You are misreading the language of the Constitution as has been clearly demonstrated.
All I'm doing is repeating what the Constitution says. You counter by opinion.
Your entire argument is without visible means of support. It is contrary to all court decisions, all legislative acts and publications, and all known published legal experts.
Funny, I seem to remember Confederates being called "rebels" and being defeated in their secession attempt. I guess I'm not the only one that saw that secession attempt as being illegal.
You are misreading the language of the Constitution as has been clearly demonstrated.
Not at all. What's illogical is to assume that a state can secede with no separation terms. Staying states had investments in what the Confederacy stole.
The Constitution could be amended to allow anything, that's why the founders required 2/3rds & 3/4ths to ratify amendments.
Most of the Northwest Territory & the states formed from it were ceded by Virginia - with no renumeration. The original states would have has financial interests in ALL US properties held by the government. Northeastern lighthouses were built with monies paid by the seceded states, shouldn't the seceding states receive renumeration for those?
They should've said something then.
The original states would have has financial interests in ALL US properties held by the government. Northeastern lighthouses were built with monies paid by the seceded states, shouldn't the seceding states receive renumeration for those?
Perhaps so. All the more reason to follow Article IV and have the Congress come up with secession terms.
#666 [#3Fan] Again, I've never said secession is illegal.
#663 [#3Fan] There's nothing in the Constitution that would say otherwise and I've never said a state doesn't have the right to secede.
#622 [#3Fan] I never said secession was prohibited, I said the Congress gets to set the rules for proof of secession.
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Your inane argument is that secession was illegal due to some violation of Article 4, Section 1 -- a violation perceived only by you due to a misreading of the import of Article 4, Section 1.
Cite one court decision that ever held secession was illegal due to any alleged violation of Article 4, Section 1.
Cite any legal expert who has ever writtten that secession was illegal due to any alleged violation of Article 4, Section 1.
But what did he know, right?
Laws: Cases and Codes : U.S. Code : Title 28 : Section 1738
Title 28 U.S. Code
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U.S. Code as of: 01/22/02 Section 1738. State and Territorial statutes and judicial proceedings; full faith and credit
The Acts of the legislature of any State, Territory, or Possession of the United States, or copies thereof, shall be authenticated by affixing the seal of such State, Territory or Possession thereto.
The records and judicial proceedings of any court of any such State, Territory or Possession, or copies thereof, shall be proved or admitted in other courts within the United States and its Territories and Possessions by the attestation of the clerk and seal of the court annexed, if a seal exists, together with a certificate of a judge of the court that the said attestation is in proper form.
Such Acts, records and judicial proceedings or copies thereof, so authenticated, shall have the same full faith and credit in every court within the United States and its Territories and Possessions as they have by law or usage in the courts of such State, Territory or Possession from which they are taken.
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Section 1738 - Notes
SOURCE (June 25, 1948, ch. 646, 62 Stat. 947.)
Based on title 28, U.S.C., 1940 ed., Sec. 687 (R.S. Sec. 905).
Words ''Possession of the United States'' were substituted for ''of any country subject to the jurisdiction of the United States''.
Words ''or copies thereof'' were added in three places. Copies have always been used to prove statutes and judicial proceedings under section 687 of title 28, U.S.C., 1940 ed. The added words will cover expressly such use.
Words ''and its Territories and Possessions'' were added in two places so as to make this section and section 1739 of this title uniform, the basic section of the latter having provided that nonjudicial records or books of any State, Territory, or ''country subject to the jurisdiction of the United States'' should be admitted in any court or office in any other State, Territory, or ''such country.''
Words ''a judge of the court'' were substituted for ''the judge, chief justice or presiding magistrate'' without change of substance.
At the beginning of the last paragraph, words ''Such Acts'' were substituted for ''And the said''. This follows the language of Article IV, section 1 of the Constitution.
For additional provisions as to authentication, see Rule 44 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
Changes were made in phraseology.
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