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An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.

A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.

"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."

Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.

"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."

About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.

"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."

Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.

"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.

"That's all it ever was."

Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.

"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.

"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."

Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.

"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."

Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.

"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.

Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.

"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!

"They were protected."

Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.

After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.

Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.

"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."

Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.

"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: dixie; dixielist
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To: #3Fan
42
1,261 posted on 03/23/2004 12:36:13 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
In what passes for your mind.
1,262 posted on 03/23/2004 12:37:11 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
#1231 [#3Fan] Do you go to the insane assylum to get an authoritative view on a subject?

#1255 {#3Fan] It's 2004.

For a 2004 subject, I study people who hallucinate about armed viking military ships.

LINK

#422 [#3Fan] Military ships that travel close to land need arms. The Vikings had arms,

LINK

#423 [#3Fan] All I can do is repeat that military ships that travel close to shore do indeed have arms. Vikings, Vietnam, and the Spaniards all had arms.

1,263 posted on 03/23/2004 12:41:15 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Battle axes and swords are arms, idiot.

One does not arm a military ship with axes and swords for use near shore, idiot. Throwing axes as a naval coastal bombardment technique works only in #3navy.

LINK

#422 [#3Fan] Military ships that travel close to land need arms. The Vikings had arms,

LINK

#423 [#3Fan] All I can do is repeat that military ships that travel close to shore do indeed have arms. Vikings, Vietnam, and the Spaniards all had arms.

1,264 posted on 03/23/2004 12:49:13 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
They had marched north as an army of concerned citizens. Along the way they learned to speak with a Bronx accent and they decided, as long as they were there and they fit right in, what the heck, they would just go ahead and change their place of official residence to the Bronx, register, and perform their civic duty of voting. They were conscientious and went to Penn Station (across from Madison Square Garden where the Knicks were playing) and caught the 8th Avenue line downtown and went to 26 Federal Plaza and reported to INS and did all their paperwork right and proper. It is surprising how they could pass for New Yorkers, considering the accent. One would have thought it would have been much easier to go to Chicago where the accent is much more similar, and they could have just claimed residence at any local cemetary and voted as dead people. Obviously anyone supporting a rebellion should not be allowed to vote.

How did your heroic poll watchers determine who was supporting rebellion?

1,265 posted on 03/23/2004 12:53:09 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: stand watie
[sw] were you SURPRISED by this????

I am not so much surprised that it was said or done, but that such things are openly stated in writing and contained in the official records. No military officer would forward such a thing up the chain of command in writing unless he were absolutely certain such talk was acceptable. The conversation is simply matter of fact. I did not expect to find openly documented considerations of extermination.

1,266 posted on 03/23/2004 1:09:16 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan; rustbucket
[#3Fan] Why were southerners trying to vote in New York?

New Yorkers were trying to vote in New York. They were Democrats. The Democrats in New York greatly outnumbered the Republicans. The Democrat vote was suppressed.

Only a #3fool would think there was an army of Southerners drawling their way around NYC trying to vote.

1,267 posted on 03/23/2004 1:52:28 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
Being from Illinois, I vote in Illinois. If a Southerner was voting in New York, then he would've been doing so illegally. Have you no common sense?

Mikey, in this case "Southerner" is euphamism for McClellan voter. Copperhead would have worked as well.

1,268 posted on 03/23/2004 3:20:34 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: #3Fan
4CJ says they were.

Where?

No one looks worse than you. lol

Lol. The official - ie. LEGAL - documents of secession were the "Ordinances of Secession".

1,269 posted on 03/23/2004 5:17:39 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: #3Fan
[Gianni, "earlier"] I had a friend from Indiana who lived down the hall from me in college.

[#3, 1215] Do you deny speaking about Indianans?

Only you could come up with that one.

1,270 posted on 03/23/2004 5:26:42 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: rustbucket
I will tell my worthy friend that officers of the sixty-fifth regiment of Indiana located at that time in other precincts of that county [in Kentucky] went and took their pens and struck from the poll-book every Democratic candidate. They would allow no man to cast his vote unless he voted for the other ticket.

That's the REPUBLICAN government the Union was fighting for. We condemn countries doing the same.

1,271 posted on 03/23/2004 5:28:25 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: #3Fan; 4ConservativeJustices
Just Like union thugs are union thugs. If they have no problem being tyrannists over another human being, they have no problem with murder, whether it be Kansas or Texas.

Watch what you say about "union thugs." They too were our forefathers. Besides, you wouldn't want General Walt to demote you.

1,272 posted on 03/23/2004 5:28:46 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: #3Fan; nolu chan; 4ConservativeJustices
you guy's claim that they were to shoot anyone voting for McClellan is ridiculous and a lie

Nobody said they were there to shoot anyone voting for McClellan. As a matter of fact, all that was done was to post the words of Spoons on the matter. From them, you apparently drew the same conclusion as McClellan supporters.

1,273 posted on 03/23/2004 5:30:50 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: #3Fan
My link. You saw it. <P<Please point to your post containing the "link" which PROVES your point about the elections.
1,274 posted on 03/23/2004 5:41:36 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: Gianni
Besides, you wouldn't want General Walt to demote you.

ROTF! Where is the General?

1,275 posted on 03/23/2004 5:47:01 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: nolu chan
I see you STILL do not provide a quote because YOU ARE A BLATANT LIAR! As the post shows, fully quoted below, you are a pathetic liar

It says exactly what I said you said it did. That blacks don't vote Republican because they are lackeys for Indiana racists, you goofy idiot. Watch your words if you don't like your crazy theories rehashed.

1,276 posted on 03/23/2004 7:25:46 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
For a 2004 subject, I study people who hallucinate about armed viking military ships.

You don't consider battle-axes and the like arms?

1,277 posted on 03/23/2004 7:27:01 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
One does not arm a military ship with axes and swords for use near shore, idiot. Throwing axes as a naval coastal bombardment technique works only in #3navy.

You don't have a good memory. I said the arms were for the men, in such that other ships that are meant for close-to-shore maneuvering and on-shore fighting will have arms for the ship's men.

You guys are completely clueless. What is it they say about college kids (the ones that study anyway), all knowledge but no sense. You spend so much time trying to find out like what Stevens did in his bedroom that and at what time that you don't employ your brain to consider the "whys" of the big picture.

1,278 posted on 03/23/2004 7:33:19 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
How did your heroic poll watchers determine who was supporting rebellion?

The same way they would determine a bank robbery, I guess, suspicious-acting people. It looks like they were meant to intimidate the fraudulant voters. As the bible says, law-abiding people have no reason to fear His sanctioned powers that be, but His sanctioned powers that be are a terror to the law-breaking. No one was shot for voting McClellan so your theory is ridiculous, it's clear they were after the arsonists.

1,279 posted on 03/23/2004 7:37:51 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
New Yorkers were trying to vote in New York. They were Democrats. The Democrats in New York greatly outnumbered the Republicans. The Democrat vote was suppressed. Only a #3fool would think there was an army of Southerners drawling their way around NYC trying to vote.

That's what Butler said, he was after "southerners". And history shows that terrorists had made threats against the city of New York on election day.

1,280 posted on 03/23/2004 7:40:18 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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