Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
like all, except N-S, of the unionist lunatics on FR, he has little or no business being in a conversation by PB, with people who are either knowledgeable on TWBTS and/or educated above 5th grade level.
otoh, i ENJOY tormenting him. MY failing.<P.free dixie,sw
ALSO in '64, soldiers voted in MANY camps either in a box marked:
PRESIDENT LINCOLN
or a box marked:
other candidates.
AND the ballots were DIFFERENT COLORS, too.
REALLY FAIR, secret ballot!!!!
almost as fair as the typical Chicago election.
free dixie,sw
free dixie NOW,sw
We are not quite up to Hobbit Hole standards.
Of course! He wasn't running against President Davis!
Amazing the election was as close as it was. Weren't there also allegations that union soldiers voted in camps, and were released to vote at home as well?
During the Civil War, large numbers of Marylanders were disqualified from voting because of their refusal to take a "loyal oath" or because of their southern sympathies.25 *** Prior to 1890 the individual voter, candidates or political parties provided a ballot which led to a various election day tactics such as colored ballots, striped ballots, and shingle ballots.25. From one-third to two-thirds of Maryland voters are estimated to have been potentially disfranchised by the loyalty requirements specified by Section 4 of Article 1 of the 1864 Constitution of Maryland. For an insight on the impact of Maryland voting, see Wm. A. Russ, "Disfranchisement in Maryland (1861-67)," Maryland Historical Magazine, December 1933, Vol. 28, pp. 309-328.
Extracted from from J.T. Willis,Presidential Elections in Maryland (pp. 3-4, 8-9 of the original edition as revised for the 2001 edition), Maryland SOS website
If all you wanted to do is parrot the response on this board. If an understanding is desired, perhaps it's better to ask a lobster.
Senator Powell of KY on Jan 6, 1864 (pg 104 of the Congressional Globe):
I will tell my worthy friend that officers of the sixty-fifth regiment of Indiana located at that time in other precincts of that county [in Kentucky] went and took their pens and struck from the poll-book every Democratic candidate. They would allow no man to cast his vote unless he voted for the other ticket. The ticket of the Democratic Party was headed by Mr. Wycliffe, my honorable colleague during the last Congress in the other end of the Capitol, and I never heard anybody accuse him of disunionism.
Senator Saulsbury (DE) on Jan 6, 1864 (pg 105):
In one of the voting districts of the county in which I live, at the opening of the polls the judge of the election announced that the military had made this order, and that he faithfully intended to execute it, and that he should administer this oath to every voter at that poll. One party in the State did not vote at all. Ninety-five persons appeared and took the oath, and nineteen belonging to the party to which the gentleman belongs refused to take the oath, although prescribed by the military, and offered to be administered by the judge of the election, and thereupon a provost marshal was sent for, who appeared on the ground and threatened to arrest the judge of elections if he administered that oath to those persons. They were, I presume, assumed to be loyal.Senator Saulsbury (DE) on Jan 6, 1864 (pg 102):
I, sir, had to vote under crossed bayonets; soldiers were stationed at the polls, and at some of the voting places at that election peaceable citizens were assaulted by your soldiery. At one of the voting places the judges of the election, who had declined to take the vote of an unnaturalized foreigner, who, according to the constitution and laws of our State, had not a right to vote, were threatened that if they did not take that vote the ballot-box should be broken; and the vote was taken.
I did some looking to see if I could augment the purchase with a Davis coin, but it is not readily apparent that more than a few exist, or that any are for sale:
Although the paper notes of the Confederacy are the well known pieces, the coinage is not as well known - for a long time, by even the most generous of definitions, the total coinage bearing a Confederate legend amounted to no more than $2.12.
The Jefferson Davis Dime certainly seems a rare piece.
Nope you guys claim that Union soldiers were to shoot people for voting McClellan. No one was shot, you guys were lying again.
Do you deny speaking about Indianans?
It was exactly what was done. Power was handed to those not elected by due process.
Wrong. Post your PROOF. We're referring to Texas, not Kansas.
Pro-slavers are pro-slavers. Just Like union thugs are union thugs. If they have no problem being tyrannists over another human being, they have no problem with murder, whether it be Kansas or Texas.
Please post the clause stating "Thou shalt not secede", or the one stating "Congress guides the secession process".
I never said secession was illegal. They way you do it can be illegal. And handing power to those not elected by due process violates Article IV, Section 4 against the citizens of their respective states. Plus, not allowing Congress to set the terms violates Article IV, Section 1, plus the alliances violates Article I, Section 10.
Which is why you need to post PROOF (evidence, not assertions).
My link. You saw it.
That wasn't my question. Do you feel that the Congress has always followed the Constitution to the letter when enacting legislation?
Yeah, and if you would keep yourself informed a little better you'd know that they were there because pro-slavers, pro-confederates, and anti-war activists threatened to burn New York on election day. No one was shot in the voting booths so you guy's claim that they were to shoot anyone voting for McClellan is ridiculous and a lie, plus it shows just how gullible you guys can by. Try using some common sense for a change.
For you guy's theories to stand, you must deny the obvious.
Again your defense of a despicable murderer shows your character. Booth knew the war was over whether there were still stragglers or not. Assassins will burn in hell.
Correcting a false statement is not defense of a murderer. Your hyperbole is getting worse.
You are defending a despicable murderer. I guess that isn't much different than defending despicable slaveholder-secessionists.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.