Posts by Mrs. Don-o

Brevity: Headers | « Text »
  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 1:10:55 PM PST · 2,507 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom
    "No, intercessory prayer WITH and FOR other believers isn’t the issue. I don’t pray TO other believers."

    Yeah you do, because prayer in this sense is communication. Any time you have communication -- especially in the Lord--- especially spiritual conversation, with any other believer, that is prayer as we understand it.

    The big misunderstanding comes in when people suppose that "pray" and "adore" are in every case synonyms.

    Speaking as a homeschooling mom (here I give my glasses in an officious tilt) everyone past middle school knows that words can have more-restrictive and less-restructive meanings, the exact understanding of which is going to depend on genre, custom, interpretive community, context.

    Prayer in the sense we are speaking of, is not adoration; it is contact or communication.

    In this sense, if I say "Metmom, please pray for me and mine" --- I am praying to you.

    It always used to mean that, but now it sounds antique:

    "Pray, m'lady, wilt thou grant me a boon?"

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 12:47:23 PM PST · 2,506 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom
    We've been through this before, but I'll repeat for greater emphasis.

    New Testament Apostles and Martyrs---- in the following quotes, Stephen, Paul and John --- addressed religious leaders as "father," and referred to themselves as "fathers" of their converts:

    Acts 22:1
    “Brothers and fathers, listen to the defense that I now make before you."

    Romans 4:16
    For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”)—

    1 Corinthians 4:15
    Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

    Philemon 1:10
    I am appealing to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment.

    1 John 2:13
    I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.

    In none of the above cases is "father" used to mean, literally, begetter or sire or daddy or pop. It is used to mean "father in the faith," "spiritual father," --- the same way Christians have, for millennia, called their spiritual leaders "father."

    Context!

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 12:33:59 PM PST · 2,503 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom
    "Well, yeah, but who ever proposed such an idea?"

    You did.

    "Jesus told us to love the Lord our God with ALL our heart, soul, mind, and strength.... If we give any portion of that to Mary, then we are not giving God ALL of it.. And if we are giving God all of it, there's no room left for Mary."

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 12:19:07 PM PST · 2,499 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    Only bit-T Tradition: Apostolic Tradition. Substitute this term and, yes, that would be a pretty good description.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 12:10:54 PM PST · 2,498 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom; boatbums; Elsie; daniel1212; af_vet_1981; vladimir998; Alamo-Girl; caww; BlueDragon; ...
    Got back to my computer and found some 40 or 50 pings directed to me which I cannot possibly get to, not wanting to give my theological OCD any further encouragement... But though this response is to metmom, maybe the rest of y'uns might want to accept this as if a response to all y'all.

    ("Y'uns" = "All y'all" though the meaning has a certain latitude due to --- latitude.)

    Anyway, listen in and respond if you wish. I probably won't get back to the rest. Like all of us, I have a LAFFR: Life Apart From Free Republic!

    So: to metmom.


    "Simple conversation is NOT praying as the kind directed towards Mary is."

    How would you know? --- you who do not pray to saints? Yes, it is "simple" conversation, in fact it could be any kind of communication: it could be hymnody, something in the grand poetic style, or even Scripture. Anything that might be communicated, to FReeper, queen or cleaning lady, including "Hi."

    "Besides, Mary is no longer on this earth. She can’t be communicated with as one would communicate with me."

    The evidence that I have communicated with you is, at best, equivocal.

    ;o0

    (Not an insult, just an observation. Like so many FReepers, we do talk past each other: though sometimes by grace-- by His grace --- we connect, yes?)

    "And we are forbidden to try to communicate with those whose physical bodies have died."

    Oh? We are forbidden to think of those who have passed on, as if they were "dead" as the world supposes. Jesus communicated with those who were "dead" (e.g. Moses and Elijah), and Jesus furthermore taught that "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" are not dead, because:

    Mark 12:27
    "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."

    Bu I think you are talking about necromancy --- conjuring the dead, attempting to fortune-tell or cast spells or acquire occult powers through the dead --- and that is forbidden.

    But noplace in the Bible is intercessory prayer with and for other members of the Body of Christ, forbidden.

    James 5:16
    The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

    James doesn't follow this up with "Except in heaven, where spiritual love and help and effectiveness drop down to zero."

    The foundational understanding here, I would say, is the reality of the Body of Christ. We are all members of Christ, and that includes, of course, those who are now in heaven. And the Body of Christ does not consist of large and larger clumps of dead cells as the ages roll on and more and more of the faithful pass beyond the bars of death. We are all still alive in Christ, and that means we are in living, effective contact with each other through Christ, just as the cells, tissues, organs and systems, the limbs and senses are in contact in a living body.

    Then Paul says:

    1 Cor. 12:20-27

    But now indeed there are many members,
    yet one body.
    And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”;
    nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
    No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.
    And those members of the body
    which we think to be void of honor,
    on these we bestow greater honor;
    and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty,
    but our presentable parts have no need.
    But God composed the body,
    having given greater honor to that part which lacks it,
    that there should be no schism in the body,
    but that the members should have the same care for one another.
    And if one member suffers,
    all the members suffer with it;
    or if one member is honored,
    all the members rejoice with it.
    Now you are the body of Christ, and each of you is a member of it.

    Do you see how tremendous this is? There is no indication whatsoever that there is any “schism” in the Body, or that anyone ceases to have this intimate connection with Christ or with Christ’s other members, when they are in heaven. And we belong not just to Christ, but to all the others IN Him, as Paul says in Romans:

    Romans 12:5
    In Christ we, though many,
    form one body,
    and each member belongs to all the others.


    Does Paul place any limitations on this? No, indeed! Because there is no limitation to that blessed Body of which Christ is the head. As it says so splendidly in Ephesians 1:

    “That He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him…. He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

    This is so significant: we -- both in heaven and on earth --- are members of His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.

    Can anyone think that those who have gone on before us into heaven are dead clumps in the Body of Christ, who have no living relationship with us, nor we with them? God forbid! As Paul says, “And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”

    We all participate in payer and carry each other’s prayers to the Father, just as I might carry your prayer to the Father, metmom, and you might carry mine, when we pray or each other. St.John gives us a peek into Heave and lets us see this astonishing things, that with us the creatures and elders of Heaven, and angels, too, participate in this great loving ceremony of prayer:

    Revelation 5:8
    Now when He [the Lamb] had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.


    Revelation 8:3-4
    Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.

    I’m amazed and in wonder, at the absolute lively interactive interdependence of His Body, which is all of us as His members, with Him who is our Head.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 11:45:38 AM PST · 2,497 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    Vandalism, isn’t it?

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 8:28:32 AM PST · 2,482 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom
    "Do whatever He tells you."... Was only directed to the servants at the wedding in Cana.... There isn't a shred of evidence that that command was ever intended for anyone else."

    Right. Except for Biblical evidence:

    2 Timothy 3:16
    All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 8:25:48 AM PST · 2,481 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom
    Scripture tells us so many times to love other people --- brother, neighbor, enemy --- that to make the argument that loving God "with all our heart" means loving other people -0-, zero, supposedly because loving other people takes away from God, is ridiculous on the face of it. I'm not going to abuse FR's bandwidth or your eyesight by printing out everything BibleGateway turns up in a "love" keyword search.

    Think about it, memom. You're a sensible person.

    Second, my arguments about "father" are all Scriptural. Any Scriptural argument could be mistaken --- that's one reason why Scriptural interpretation by any one in-DUH-vidual like myself, can be debated --- but a Scriptural argument should be debated, not just blown off, either.

    Love you, metmom. No offense to God.

    Check out Romans 13:8
    "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." Makes a good tagline.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 8:05:53 AM PST · 2,480 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to metmom; af_vet_1981
    "Does it bother you that so many of your fellow Catholics support abortion and homosexual marriage?"

    Bothers heck outta me when Catholics reject Catholic faith and morals. Bothers me when anybody rejects Catholic faith and morals --- but particularly "Catholics."

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 7:46:55 AM PST · 2,479 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to CynicalBear
    GOOD POINT!

    Check this out:

    Biblical norms on bowing

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/18/2014 7:44:29 AM PST · 2,478 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to caww; Springfield Reformer
    Agreed!

    Check this out:

    Biblical norms on bowing

  • Defining nearly all sex as rape

    12/18/2014 7:27:54 AM PST · 7 of 38
    Mrs. Don-o to 2ndDivisionVet; luvbach1; Sasparilla; crazyman
    "Defining nearly all sex as rape"

    That's what'll always happen one week after you've defined all sex as fabulous.

  • Marquette Univ tells employees: “Opposition to same-sex marriage” could be “unlawful harassment”

    12/18/2014 7:23:37 AM PST · 13 of 20
    Mrs. Don-o to allendale
    I have not been able to figure out the SJ's. They are baffling, maddening.

    There are a few REALLY good ones in the public eye --- Fr. Mitch Pacwa SJ at EWTN, Fr. Joe Fessio SJ at Ignatius Press--- an old friend of mine, Fr. Ray SJ, an academic and pastor. (Ordained about 20 yeas ago, he told me even then that it was a harrowing ordeal to get though the Jesuit seminary training, because he had to conceal for years his complete loyalty to Catholic teaching: if they had known, hey would have canned him. No joke.)

    They used to be the best of the best. Now they're the worst of the worst.

    Why did that happen? I'm tempted to say "intellectual pride" and way too much money, much of it--- I suspect--- in endowments from pious donors who set up funds for them ages ago when the Jesuits were still Catholic. But there must be a whole step-by-step institutional history of corruption, and then the whole "Old Boys Network" of the corrupt recruiting and advancing the corrupt.

    I don't know what could help the situation short of a neutron bomb.

    Pray.

    :o(

  • Francis, filtered (George Weigel finds something missing...)

    12/18/2014 6:38:21 AM PST · 28 of 37
    Mrs. Don-o to Wyrd bið ful aræd
    I know what you're saying... one shouldn't even have to say that "Good golly,the Pope is against abortion, the devil and disordered marriage".

    It has a strong whiff of satire, somehow.

    But that's the world we live in. One feels like an idiot, standing there reiterating the obvious. Water: still wet.

  • Francis, filtered (George Weigel finds something missing...)

    12/18/2014 5:11:23 AM PST · 26 of 37
    Mrs. Don-o to NotSoFreeStater

    That sounds like definitely questionable papal diplomacy.

  • For Advent: Life Begins in the Womb

    12/18/2014 5:09:47 AM PST · 20 of 22
    Mrs. Don-o to Grateful2God
    Grateful2God --- and Grateful2U!

    You said it all!

    I love your tagline, by the way. That's the very line of the Tantum Ergo I love the best. Especially the two words "sensuum defectui" --- when the senses fail.

    A little off-subject, but at the same time right on it: an amazing and humbling demonstration of how the senses fail. This is an optical illusion I found on Discoverymagazine:

    And here's their explanation:

    Blue green spiral illusion You see embedded spirals, right, of green, pinkish-orange, and blue? Incredibly, the green and the blue spirals are the same color. Huh?

    I loaded the image in Photoshop and examined the two spirals. In the two squares displayed below, the one on the left is colored using the same color from the blue spiral, and on the right using the green spiral.


    ...........green and blue squares..

    Like I said, incredible! For pedantry sake, the RGB colors in both spirals are 0, 255, 150. So they are mostly green with a solid splash of blue.

    The reason they look different colors is because our brain judges the color of an object by comparing it to surrounding colors. In this case, the stripes are not continuous as they appear at first glance. The orange stripes don’t go through the "blue" spiral, and the magenta ones don’t go through the "green" one. Here’s a zoom to make this more clear:


    Blue green spirals zoom

    See? The orange stripes go through the "green" spiral but not the "blue" one. So without us even knowing it, our brains compare that spiral to the orange stripes, forcing it to think the spiral is green. The magenta stripes make the other part of the spiral look blue, even though they are exactly the same color. If you still don’t believe me, concentrate on the edges of the colored spirals. Where the green hits the magenta it looks bluer to me, and where the blue hits the orange it looks greener. Amazing.

    The overall pattern is a spiral shape because our brain likes to fill in missing bits to a pattern. Even though the stripes are not the same color all the way around the spiral , the overlapping spirals makes our brain think they are. The very fact that you have to examine the picture closely to figure out any of this at all shows just how easily we can be fooled.

    This is why I tell people over and over again: you cannot trust what you see even with your own eyes. Your eyes are not cameras faithfully taking pictures of absolute truth of all that surrounds you. They have filters, and your brain has to interpret the jangled mess it gets fed. Colors are not what they appear, shapes are not what they appear (that zoomed image above is square, believe it or not), objects are not what they appear.

    Things are not as they appear!

    And that related to my tagline...

  • 4 Literally Awesome Facts About Our Lady of Guadalupe

    12/17/2014 6:45:57 PM PST · 27 of 46
    Mrs. Don-o to El Cid
    Thanks you for these balanced and thoughtful comments, as well as the beautiful Marian Scriptures which I can't get enough of.

    I'll try to chime in sometime tomorrow about the specifics of apparitions like Guadalupe.

  • Francis, filtered (George Weigel finds something missing...)

    12/17/2014 6:43:28 PM PST · 1 of 37
    Mrs. Don-o
    Weigel compares the media "filter" to a "bamboo curtain", screening out papal messages that aren't part of "The Narrative" --- the predetermined liberal consensus on what the "real story" is, no matter the pesky particular facts.

    Pope Francis' teachings on

    • abortion (against!)
    • same-sex "marriage" (against!)
    • Satan (against! and with a strong emphasis on the reality of demonic entities, and the need to resist their evil)

    All pretty much silenced in the mediasphere.

    Class, discuss.

  • Some with Same-Sex Attraction Choose Celibacy – A Reflection on an Article in the Washington Post

    12/17/2014 4:12:17 PM PST · 35 of 37
    Mrs. Don-o to Tax-chick

    He writes in a clear and unequivocal way. Unlike so many of our capon clerics.

  • Some with Same-Sex Attraction Choose Celibacy – A Reflection on an Article in the Washington Post

    12/17/2014 3:20:41 PM PST · 33 of 37
    Mrs. Don-o to Tax-chick
    Msgr. Pope keeps getting better and better.

    As for those who wold rather have illicit sexual union than Holy Communion --- they have certainly revealed the real identity of their one true god.

  • `Flame and Blame` uncovers Sherman's strategy of war on civilians

    12/17/2014 3:16:37 PM PST · 183 of 192
    Mrs. Don-o to BroJoeK
    I don't have the book at hand, but maybe if you googled this author, Jim Downs, you'd find more info., He seems to be no dingbat, but on the scholarly side of the spectrum (Oxford University Press.)

    I have to agree --- I suspect Downs would agree --- that statistics are hard to get with any precision, especially at a time when a census esp. of black slaves and freedmen was hardly exact. However, slaves appeared in property lists (e.g. estates, bequests) and they were enumerated decenially by the US. govt. in the antebellum days for apportionment purposes (House districts.)

    So realistic estimates could be made.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 2:57:59 PM PST · 2,421 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to BlueDragon

    I’m in a hurry but one word about this: this image does not pray. If someone thinks this image prays, that person is superstitious. This is against the First Commandment,

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 2:51:54 PM PST · 2,420 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to BlueDragon
    " I will ask again -- was that not yourself which testified on these pages previously of having received baptism of the Spirit in a Pentecostal Church?"

    No. I never received baptism of the Spirit in a Pentecostal church. I do have dear Pentecostal friends (Church of God in Christ), whose church I never attended. Through generous befriending and dialogue they helped me recover faith in Christ, Whom I had--- through my sinful fault --- abandoned in my late teens-early 20's.

    "While you had also shared that you were raised in the Roman Catholic Church...but for a time had not attended, etc?"

    Yes.

    "And then here you say --- "the Church"?"

    Yes. And I mean "the Catholic" Church in both senses: as in "all the Baptized" (because Baptism is entrance into the Catholic Church --- for you as well as for me, BlueDragon) as well as "in communion with Peter and his succssors".

    (This kind of discussion often suffers from the failure to make distinctions between the different, though mostly concentric and mostly coherent --- multiple senses of the word "Church." I will try to keep these senses explicit, without becoming totally exasperating, I hope.)

    "Since when was the Roman Catholic church ever exclusively "the" church? It most certainly was not in the earliest beginnings."

    In the early beginnings, before Peter came to the city of Rome, there was no "See of Rome," of course. But there was Peter. And if you were in communion with Peter and the other Apostles, you were a member of the Catholic Church (the church cata holos, the whole Church) whereas if you were with someone not in communion with Peter (e.g. Simon Magus) you were not a member of the Catholic Church.

    "Ah, but then in later centuries took up the trappings of Empire of Rome as that disintegrated and dissolved, blending that with "Church"."

    The "trappings" do not make up the Church. There were, in the earliest centuries, FIVE patriarchal sees --- Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, and Rome --- and none of them except Rome had precisely Roman trappings (Constantinople being a special case, since Constantinople was "Roman" for 1,000 years beyond the existence of the Western Empire). But the other local Churches --- even as far away as Mosul (Iraq) or Xi'an (western China)--- which were not culturally or politically Roman at all --- were still Catholic if they had not broken communion with Peter.

    "The idea itself the the Roman Catholic Church (which Catholic insist should be called only The Catholic Church).."

    Thank you. That's much to be preferred..

    "...is indeed The Church, either in entirety, or as central authority is a Romish fantasy (and always has been!)..."

    ...corroborated by certain, uh, trifles of historic documentary and physical evidence...

    "...possibly reinforced here and there by mistaking correlation (of Spirit) for causation (themselves!).."
    That's too complicated for me to even make out, not knowing who are the exact "themselves" of whom you speak. For a really good and reliable "himself", however, I would recommend Irenaeus of Lyon. OK, carry on...

    "-- when the cause is God's own grace & mercy -- which can be found in full abundance far outside the narrow confines of Roman Catholicism."

    I certainly agree that God's grace and mercy fall outside of any confines whatsoever. Although these people, too, are ordered (that is, being oriented toward) the Church, themselves, even if they are ever so far from a visible, institutional affiliation.

    "One need not accept popery in order to enjoy communion, through Christ, with God."

    This is true. I hope you are using the word "popery" with a wry sense of irony --- as my best popish friends do. Otherwise, be prepared to be called one of the --- brace yourself--- "separated brethren"! :o)

    " BUT -- that concept is among many that Roman Catholics (including popes) have long asserted is a requirement, even one which Christ Himself would require of all human beings (if one listens closely enough to Romanists)."

    Ditto the word "Romanists" --- you separated brethren, you!

    BTW, I'm about out of time here for the nonce. Concerning your statement about people being saved outside of the Catholic Church, let me refer you to an authoritative statement of what the Catholic Church says about that:

    Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 819

    "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation..."

    Please read it with plenty of context (paragraphs before and after, at least) so you'll get the bigger picture and not fall into some misunderstanding.

    You're certainly Catholic.

    Tagline :o)

  • Some with Same-Sex Attraction Choose Celibacy – A Reflection on an Article in the Washington Post

    12/17/2014 1:36:19 PM PST · 31 of 37
    Mrs. Don-o to Tax-chick
    So true. And disturbing.

    Plus, I think, generally, men who commit sodomy upon women, don't even recognize themselves as sodomites.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 1:30:53 PM PST · 2,398 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    I think so, too.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 1:30:17 PM PST · 2,397 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    Amen to all that!

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 1:29:15 PM PST · 2,396 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    50 prayers would be just one Rosary. You can do that in 20 minutes. Doesn’t seem like OCD to me.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 1:28:12 PM PST · 2,394 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    I don’t think people do. I sure don’t!

  • `Flame and Blame` uncovers Sherman's strategy of war on civilians

    12/17/2014 1:26:29 PM PST · 181 of 192
    Mrs. Don-o to BroJoeK
    Actually, I am not a pacifist although I admire principled pacifists, e.g. Mother Terese of Calcutta, whose pacifism never conflated with naivete, utopianism or cowardice.

    My argument was from the Christian principles regulating Just War. Much of this can be found (is it still there?) in the UCMJ. Nor do I think Yankee soldiers were all depraved war dogs,and CSA'ers were all Marse Robert.

    If, as you say the rate of civilian casualties was much power in the U.S. Civil War than in other civil was, then I give credit to soldiers and officers who were just.

    Related: the mass die-off of black slaves--- hundreds of thousands of them --- as a (surely unintended) consequence of the Civil War and its aftermath.

  • 911 call after newborn found in Kearns trash: ‘There’s a baby in our garbage can’

    12/17/2014 1:12:39 PM PST · 20 of 23
    Mrs. Don-o to IYAS9YAS

    GOOD TO KNOW! I hope a permanent adoption to loving parents also proceeded a.s.a.p.!

  • 4 Literally Awesome Facts About Our Lady of Guadalupe

    12/17/2014 1:10:37 PM PST · 18 of 46
    Mrs. Don-o to tioga

    Amen to that. Amen x 10.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 1:09:57 PM PST · 2,391 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to caww
    "What is interesting about the statues you posted is that unlike catholics I don’t see people bowing to them nor praying to them to intercede."

    TRUE--- and that IS interesting. The spiritual heirs of Luther, Calvin, Waldo and Wycliffe abandoned the Biblical customs and practices of bowing before kinsmen; priests, prophets, kings; holy places (like Jerusalem) and holy objects (like the Ark of the Covenant) #65 ---( worth a look). Some have strayed so far that they can't even distinguish between bowing and adoration anymore. The abandonment of the Biblical language of gesture is an immense cultural loss.

    Incidentally, we don't pray "to" pictures to intercede. That would be silly silly: art objects don't intercede. We believe the effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much; and of course, it doesn't stop availing much if that righteous person has passed into the life to come, where they are with the Triune God forever.

    "God did say that making these idols/images would draw people to worship before them.....which was what the pagans did."

    TRUE--- and the making of idols will do just that, because that is what idols are intended for. But that's not what statues, bas-reliefs, icons, painting, stained glass, tapestries, banners, frescoes, mosaics and murals are for That's why these are not forbidden; specifically, idols are forbidden.

    "Additionally, regardless of what denomination these statues are affiliated with..I’ve never known any of them to urge praying or requesting it’s membership to ask prayer of these departed people to pray for them."

    TRUE, natch. But I put those pictures there for confirm the fact that it's not the making of statues/images that is forbidden. It's not even the honor given to the great men of the Reformation that is forbidden. What's forbidden is: idols.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 12:27:16 PM PST · 2,379 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to CynicalBear

    We already discussed bowing. Please review.

  • 4 Literally Awesome Facts About Our Lady of Guadalupe

    12/17/2014 11:56:24 AM PST · 8 of 46
    Mrs. Don-o to El Cid; millegan
    "Focus on God's Word and Christ and His Saving Works."

    Amen. You've got absolutely the right idea there, El Cid.

    Bearing in mind that Mary said "Be it done unto me according to Thy Word... and the Word was made flesh. Keeping in mind that she --- because of her role in the Incarnation --- is one of His saving works.

  • 4 Literally Awesome Facts About Our Lady of Guadalupe

    12/17/2014 11:53:51 AM PST · 7 of 46
    Mrs. Don-o to Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
    I love Our Lady of Guadalupe. She really kicked Huitzilopochtli's hind end.

  • 911 call after newborn found in Kearns trash: ‘There’s a baby in our garbage can’

    12/17/2014 11:40:38 AM PST · 14 of 23
    Mrs. Don-o to trisham
    Good. That may be why the baby wasn't dead. Still hoping for the best.

    Hope the baby's adopted by somebody who can provide a lot of time and care (infant stimulation and so forth) to remediate the damage done. And serious skin-to-skin bonding starting right now. I'd take that baby if I could.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 11:37:04 AM PST · 2,373 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to MamaB
    Sorry, te child being on the island was my hypothetical, not yours. I should have made that clear.

    The point was that children will understand parts of the Bible, but huge swathes of it they will not understand. Any adult who's honest will relate to that.

    We were homeschoolers for 11 years and my boys memorized Proverbs and other simple single-verse excerpts on a regular basis. We discussed the meaning, too, since it wasn't always self-evident. It's an excellent thing to be immersed in Scripture.

    But it is in no way self-explaining, self-defining or self-interpreting. It has always inspired myriad interpretations when in-DUH-viduals like myself try to puzzle it out on in our own little brain-boxes.

    Provable every day free of charge on the Free Republic Religion Forum!

    I prayed earnestly to the Holy Spirit for guidance, and the Holy Spirit directed me to the Church.

  • 911 call after newborn found in Kearns trash: ‘There’s a baby in our garbage can’

    12/17/2014 11:24:32 AM PST · 10 of 23
    Mrs. Don-o to trisham
    "Officials said the infant had not received care or food before she was found in critical condition."

    Prayers up for the baby to live.

    Sometimes they can make a recovery. I hope the weather was cold: cold weather slows the metabolic process way down and can protect against brain damage.

    Another pray for the baby. Have to force myself to pray for the mother, too --- who manifests a depraved and/or incompetent mind.

    Lord have mercy on us all.

    Lord have mercy on us all.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 11:16:43 AM PST · 2,369 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to MamaB
    I have a high reverence for the Bible, snce its principal Author is the Holy Spirit and as such it teaches us what is needed for our salvation --- so we're in agreement on that.

    However if the child were on an island by himself with the Bible, he could NOT understand it. There would be parts that he could grasp, but huge swaths which would be far beyond his grasp. That's assuming the child is literate.

    Peter, Jesus' picked right-hand man, had a hard time understanding Paul (2 Peter 3:15-16 "Our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 1as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand")

    ...and the Ethiopian eunuch (a man of "great authority" --a court official of the Candace and presumably a highly literate man) had a hard time of it

    Acts 8:30-31

    So Philip ran to him,
    and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah,
    and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
    And he said,
    “How can I, unless someone guides me?”
    And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 11:04:09 AM PST · 2,368 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie; annalex

    Are you referring to annalex’s two comments here? I, too, think they are admirable.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 11:02:35 AM PST · 2,367 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to Elsie

    SO TRUE!

  • Indiana police evoke outrage with ‘Breathe Easy: Don’t Break the Law’ T-shirt sales

    12/17/2014 11:01:23 AM PST · 52 of 56
    Mrs. Don-o to ansel12

    I agree with you on that, Ansel.

  • Atticus Finch: American literature's most celebrated rape apologist

    12/17/2014 10:55:51 AM PST · 48 of 48
    Mrs. Don-o to Diamond

    Amen, Diamond!

  • Atticus Finch: American literature's most celebrated rape apologist

    12/17/2014 10:55:18 AM PST · 47 of 48
    Mrs. Don-o to PapaBear3625

    Very true.

  • Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

    12/17/2014 10:51:21 AM PST · 2,365 of 2,513
    Mrs. Don-o to CynicalBear; don-o
    "...making statues that you use in worship."

    "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

    For one thing, the Commandment can be taken as wide or narrow, depending on the theological interpretation. Some observant Jews to this day do not allow representational art or object of any kind. Nowhere, nohow, not in the cemetery, not at the Lincoln Memorial, no little painted birds, no plastic kitties and doggies for the kiddies, period.

    Strict Amish people even forbid photographs. Should we say they are the only Christians who understand and observe the plain meaning of the passage cited above: no likeness of any thing? Period?

    But their interpretation is a very late innovation: 17th century. In the very earliest physical evidence we have for both Christian worship spaces and burial places (catacombs, second century AD) and Christian house churches (such as at the Dura-Europos house church (LINK, and worth looking) and related article link you can see both mural art and bas-relief, a kind of sculpture. This is in the very earliest archaeological remains of a house church (sometime before 265 AD, when the area was razed by the Persians.)

    This type of image-making progressed for another 6 or 7 centuries and was not even seriously questioned until iconoclasm controversy of the 8th century, when dissenters went around smashing all Christian art and demanding that it be outlawed. Emperor Leo III actually ordered all images removed from all churches. This was due to early Muslim influence on Christian faith and morals. Icons and murals were quickly reinstated subsequent to an Ecumenical Council (the Church against declaring its liberty against the Emperor!!) although statues, i.e. three-dimensional depictions, are not used in Orthodox Churches.

    Incidentally, icons and murals are incensed, kissed and bowed down to in Orthodox AND Catholic liturgies. (Orthodox moreso, much to my sincere admiration.) And that's not all. Altars are incensed. Gospel books are incensed. Vestments are incensed. And the members of the congregation are incensed. You're not even exempt if you're dead. If you're being buried from a Catholic Church, your corpse and casket are incensed.

    If you came to our Easter Vigil, I guarantee you'd be incensed!

    But that only shows that in Orthodox and Catholic practice, not even bowing, kissing and wafting with incense are taken as signs of adoration properly so called, i.e. to God. That is, they are neither offered nor understood as signs of that supreme adoration which is due to the Holy Trinity alone. They are understood as signs of solemn honor, and/or the dedication or a person, place, or thing to a sacred use.

    Mistaking this for idolatry is simply cultural solipsism.

    The Catholic Church teaches that likenesses are kosher as long as the object is not worshiped. We see that Christ fulfilled this commandment, since He came and manifested in His human nature a pure image and likeness of God, as well as being a Divine Person, God. Jesus IS the Icon of God. This fulfillment by Christ (His Incarnation) changes everything and empowers His followers to be a New Creation, a Creation in which everything is in its proper order and the dedication of persons and objects does not turn into idolatry.

    I call as my witnesses Martin Luther

    .

    John Calvin

    .

    Peter Waldo

    .

    and John Wycliffe

    Have a nice day!

  • Church of England names first female bishop – as government unveils plans to fast-track them into

    12/17/2014 9:28:14 AM PST · 9 of 22
    Mrs. Don-o to don-o
    Here it is ORDAIN A LADY--

    The oggle-boggling thing is, they are so oblivious they evidently didn't realize they were doing a self-parody. They did take down the comments, though. It may have shown some viewers having way, way too much fun with it.

  • Indiana police evoke outrage with ‘Breathe Easy: Don’t Break the Law’ T-shirt sales

    12/17/2014 9:15:13 AM PST · 6 of 56
    Mrs. Don-o to Da Coyote

    I admire the chutzpah.

  • Atticus Finch: American literature's most celebrated rape apologist

    12/17/2014 9:13:52 AM PST · 42 of 48
    Mrs. Don-o to allendale
    "Rail furiously."

    Sigh. You're totally cute when you're mad, for sure.

  • Church of England names first female bishop – as government unveils plans to fast-track them into

    12/17/2014 9:11:44 AM PST · 8 of 22
    Mrs. Don-o to stephenjohnbanker; C19fan; Da Coyote; goodwithagun
    HAH!

    Hey Stephenjohn, good to see you again.

    The more foolish of the RC's are getting a contact high off of it, but no-o-o-o it ain't happenin' on the other side of the TRiber--- Some elderly clerical creep (maybe it was Kasper) said, wistfully, "(Sigh) Not in my lifetime".

    And God said, "Not in MY lifetime."

    For your enjoyment (this is an honest-to-google hoot):

    Ordain a Lady (LINK)

  • Church of England names first female bishop – as government unveils plans to fast-track them into

    12/17/2014 9:00:29 AM PST · 4 of 22
    Mrs. Don-o to C19fan

    As long as she can get divorced, he’s OK with it.