Free Republic

These are 2 great guys with virtuous lives. They have good intentions and strong teaching abilities. However, this “crisis in the Church” has been discussed and debated and dissected for about 40 years now.

Nobody seems able to clarify: (1) the real cause, and (2) the proper solution. This preaching to the choir is nice, but something is missing in the big schema.

Yes, a “gauntlet” was thrown down by Pope Francis and his gang at the Synod. It was truly shocking, and also deceitfully done.

So what do we do now? Discussing morality is certainly helpful, as many people are not up to speed on even the basics. But that does not change the course of the ship. These guys are excellent at swabbing the deck. But the bark is headed the wrong direction, and the sails are in tatters.

I post this merely “fyi” to clarify possible confusion about the Church hierarchy:

Each bishop is directly subject to the Holy Father.

Bishops are not subject to other bishops NOR to their National Conferences.

(CDW could be considered an exception but only on doctrinal clarifications and such.)

So Dolan, Poprocki or Wuerl each “report” directly to the Pope - not to the USCCB.

No one “reports” to the USCCB except it’s own employees.

Only the Pope can remove a bishop from his position.

Collegiality is the theory (some might say doctrine) that the Pope and the world’s bishops cooperate together to guide the Church. Some call this horizontality or synodality. It has been a big emphasis of the Francis pontificate and his close circle.

The jurisdiction of a bishop extends only to the people in his own diocese.

Dolan has authority over every human being (some might argue Catholics only, that is another issue) in the Archdiocese of New York and no other person, whether he is speaking from his Cathedral or a TV program with a worldwide audience. He can only speak for himself, he is not a “spokesman” of the Church.

Nor is the USCCB press spokesman a representative of the Church in any manner whatsoever, although I agree with you that the “perception” in the public is just the opposite.

Priests administer the sacraments and exercise their sacerdotal privileges within a given diocese under the authority of the local ordinary (bishop).

So if a priest travels from one diocese to other areas for some reason, he carries papers from his bishop verifying he is a priest in good standing, and he must also (theoretically) obtain permission to function officially in the dioceses he visits (including TV studios or radio shows that may emit from that diocese).

Religious priests (in an “order” like Jesuits, Benedictines, etc) are under the authority of their order, not the local bishop, but must still have papers, and the top man in the religious order (eg: the Jesuit Superior General) is usually answerable both ways vertically - that is he’s elected by his own priests, but subject to the Pope.

I hope this helps clarify a few technical angles that are frequently unclear. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

You must mean Dante’s Divine Comedy.

Christopher Columbus was, of course, Catholic, but many people don’t know he is also recognized for a life of heroic virtue and designated a “Servant of God” (step 1 of 3 on the “path” to sainthood) by the Catholic Church.

The problem is that Freepers do not rule the world (yet?)!

Our nation has given people the freedom, the luxury, to be stupid. In the USA, you can be stupid and never pay the price. Your freedom is protected because we are so relatively prosperous and can support people in the manner to which they desire to be accustomed.

I know people who choose to never read any news because it’s “so depressing.” Yet these people vote! They believe they are well-informed because they glance at a few Facebook posts. They are stupid enough to swallow cliches and believe people like journalists and professors.

“The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” Stupid people cannot be vigilant, they cannot discern and apply logic. They react based on raw childish emotion, which is easily manipulated by demagogues.

There have always been stupid people, but now with immigration, broken families, and the school systems, they have obtained critical mass.

“...the U.S. government will not participate...”

That’s good, if the area is growing. Good for you. Here the town councils, board of sups, and community groups all are ANTI-growth. They want things to stay cute and small and folksy like Mayberry.

They have rejected applications from Burger King, Home Depot, Starbucks, Costco and others which would bring in not only tax revenue but tons of needed jobs. The “mom and pops” are failing because no one has any management skills and tourism is falling off. Store fronts are boarded up. The locals blame this on the residents for going to the “city” to shop or “online shopping”.

They are so stupid they cannot figure out that their “zero growth” policy hurts the local economy. The 2 major industries, timber and fishing, have been crushed by the EPA and State govt years ago, but the locals cannot adjust to reality.

This could be a successful tourist attraction, but they have no vision to create it, or, truth be told, to work hard enough to achieve it.

Well, Ms. Woo sure earns her annual $400,000 plus perqs.

You ain’t bashing. This is how the Catholic hierarchy in the USA became essentially an arm of the Democratic party (and now moving even further leftward).

The best thing that could happen to the faith is to lose the tax-exempt status. Maybe then we could find our way back to Christianity. Let charity begin at home, not the investment banker’s.

There may be a few more contestants in that race. How about O’Malley, Sartain, Gomez?

Wow! I own a small house on a standard lot in a so-so Oregon town, decent but nothing special, and my property taxes are now over $1900/year! The problem is this is a county with many “entitlement” types renting, but long-term, and anytime these people want anything at all, they just vote in a bond measure. They think it’s like magic.

A new high school, when there was nothing wrong with the old one - some community group just started raising a ruckus about “the best for our children.” The next year they did it again for the grammar school. Then a new community college, with such low attendance it sits half empty! It’s not even fully accredited, it’s hardly even a trade school. Then a new animal shelter which is almost as elegant as Trump Tower, cost a fortune! For about 15 animals at a time We have very low population density here, these projects cannot be justified financially.

Now a new hospital, and they are not even adding medical services, it’s all glamour and larger offices and conference rooms for staff and doctors. But they say “community health” and people vote yes.

Also outrageous things like parks, community swimming pools, meal program, a constant stream of unnecessary things that usually are only affordable in wealthier areas. This is a rural area, it’s absurd to want more attractions than Disneyland!

These bond measures usually pass by a handful of votes; the homeowners are sick of this, but the deadbeats win. Some things do get defeated, but rarely. So consider that $400 a bargain! :-)

That sounds quite probable. Cruz has an engaging quality, a passionate yet unstrained sincerity, that has broader appeal than the others, particularly with younger women.

I’m sure you accomplished that with smart planning, discipline and hard work, and it is commendable. The difficulty is, not everyone can work for themselves, and not everyone can leave California for the cheaper housing in Texas. You sound like a resourceful single guy? A woman is not going to have that degree of flexibility.

I’m thinking of friends of mine who live in the Frisco bay area. 2 ladies sharing an apartment, both widowed. One is retired with social security and a tiny pension as her only income. The other has a good job at a high-tech company.

Their rent is about $2000 per month for a 900 sq foot, plain apartment in a run-down area. The tough part is the rent goes up 20% per year no matter what, like clockwork. The reason they are in this lower-class area is they had to move out of their nice apartment because they could not keep up with the rent increases. Now in a few years they will be forced to move again. It’s simply impossible to keep up.

What I really don’t understand is how the rents can increase beyond people’s ability to pay, and yet the apartment complexes have waiting lists?!? Who are the people that can afford thousands of dollars each month just for rent?

Doesn’t this sound similar to the “data sharing” and “coordination of intelligence data” that the Dept of Homeland Security was founded to accomplish?

Instead they miss telegrams about the Boston Bomber while they are busy groping people at airports.

Sr. Joan, do you pay taxes? Does your Order pay taxes? Do any of the nuns or the member Orders of the LCWR pay taxes? Do you maybe pay property taxes? What about the property lent to you by the dioceses, is that taxed? What about that bus you use to tour the country promoting feminism, lesbianism and abortion? Paid for by you?

No to all of the above.

According to your rationale, “sister,” a person’s morality comes down to what they are willing to be taxed for. Not what they are willing to die for, or work for, or pay for, as most do in 10% tithing to the Church and more to charity.

But only whether or not they want government to decide who and what is worthy of monetary support. Yet you yourself and all your cohorts are not paying in one penny to this wonderful “system” you advocate.

Sartain, that’s how.

So true! Or a Carrington Event.

Yeah, I knew a guy who was hired as a manager there in the late 80’s. Very well educated, MBA from Wharton, and this plant was considered cutting edge for the automotive industry. He was very keen on how they ran things.

Later there were union problems, and eventually the government intervened somehow, I believe on behalf of Tesla, who ended up the new owner of the factory. Not sure if that’s considered a govt “buy out” but there was something very convoluted about it, according to my friend.

To be honest, I could not follow the confusing story of union/business/govt shenanigans, but then I don’t have an MBA!

Yep, but not so new I don’t realize I must be open to corrections and possibly more stringent replies (as well as some nice ones) on FR!

Michelle: “I have a dream...”

I’m going out on a limb here as the first American (I’m sure Freepers will correct me if there is another one) to predict Donald Trump will win - not only the Republican nomination but the White House.

OK, Trump is obnoxious: so what? That is only a drawback if you’re a leftist. Healthy, clear-thinking, red-blooded Americans do not care if their leader is outspoken, if he can get the job done.

We are not effete psuedo-intellectual Old Europe, as Democrats long to be. We don’t want to be molly-coddled and lied to by people with perfect hair. Real Americans don’t care about hair. On the left they do, but I mean normal people.

Our country is very different from how I remember it in the 1970’s, but there are similarities. There is a “silent majority” out there who’s strongest political sentiment is “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it any more!”

Like Reagan, Trump makes a direct appeal to the downtrodden middle class people who are paying for the underclass and being ripped off by the upper class.

Trump is no Reagan, true. But the appeal of both is the same, the “outsider” or non-political operative charging in with something we have not heard in a very long time: the truth. People might just rally to it... if they recognize it.