To: grey_whiskers

We need no more of you sodbusters around here!

161 posted on 04/19/2018 5:31:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

I didn't know that MUTES were forever doomed to the PIT!

They aren't! Just spit on your finger, thouch his tomgue, and say "Ephphatha!"

That'll do it. If that ain't speaking in another tongue, I don't know what is!

162 posted on 04/19/2018 5:31:51 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)

Rather ironic since the Mormons have no idea whether the Book of Mormon was translated correctly because they don’t have the original text. We do have the original untranslated text of the Bible so we don’t need to worry whether it was translated correctly.

163 posted on 04/19/2018 5:32:25 AM PDT by AppyPappy (Don't mistake your dorm political discussions with the desires of the nation)

My preference is the KJV...

All of us old coots like our first language; but many have learned, over the years, that other languages have a sweetness and a purity to them as well.

"You'll get my KJV 23 Psalm when you can pry it from my cold, dead fingers!"

164 posted on 04/19/2018 5:34:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Not to worry; for GOD himself told Joseph Smith to CORRECT the bible; thus; the Inspired Version of Mormonism.

See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'

Color coding explanation:

Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff...

*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW

An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.

Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.

1 ^aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who ^bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ^ccrowned on the right hand of God.

2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ^ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.

3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one ^astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.

4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the ^asign of thy ^bcoming, and of the ^cend of the world, or the destruction of the ^dwicked, which is the end of the world?

5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;

6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am ^aChrist—and shall deceive many;

7 Then shall they deliver you up to be ^aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be ^bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;

8 And then shall many be ^aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;

9 And many ^afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;

10 And because iniquity shall abound, the ^alove of many shall wax cold;

11 But he that remaineth ^asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.

12 When you, therefore, shall see the ^aabomination of ^bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of ^cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the ^dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.

13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the ^amountains;

14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;

15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;

16 And wo unto them that are with ^achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;

17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;

18 For then, in those days, shall be great ^atribulation on the ^bJews, and upon the inhabitants of ^cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.

19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be ^asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the ^bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.

21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;

22 For in those days there shall also arise false ^aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the ^aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of ^bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.

24 Behold, I have told you before;

25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;

26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the ^aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the ^acarcass is, there will the eagles be ^bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.

29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be ^afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax ^acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.

31 And again, this ^aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all ^bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;

32 And again shall the ^aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.

33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the ^asun shall be ^bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the ^cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

34 Verily, I say unto you, this ^ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.

35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my ^awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.

36 And, as I said before, after the ^atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth ^bmourn; and they shall see the ^cSon of Man ^dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;

37 And whoso ^atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall ^bcome, and he shall send his ^cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the ^dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

38 Now learn a parable of the ^afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one ^aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of ^aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the ^aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And ^aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the ^alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other ^bleft;

45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; ^awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.

47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.

48 Therefore be ye also ^aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.

49 Who, then, is a ^afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

50 Blessed is that ^aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord ^adelayeth his coming,

52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,

53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and ^agnashing of teeth.

55 And thus cometh the ^aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39 24:1-51

39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

King James Version of the Holy Bible

Public domain

165 posted on 04/19/2018 5:37:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Rather ironic since the Mormons have no idea whether the Book of Mormon was translated correctly because they don’t have the original text.

They canNOT say that about the 'Book of Abraham'; for the ORIGNAL text HAS been found!!

Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture.

Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham.

"If You Could Hie to Kolob", the hymn

Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

Figure	Joseph Smith Explanation^[52]	Explanation by non-Mormon and Mormon Egyptologists (quotes are from Deveria)^[25]^[43]^[53]
1	Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.	"The spirit of the four elements (according to Champollion), or rather of the four winds, or the four cardinal points; the soul of the terrestrial world. This god is always represented with four rams' heads, and his image has certainly been altered here. — They have also evidently made a very clumsy attempt at copying the double human head of the god figured above, fig. 2, instead of the four rams' heads. The word Jah-oh-eh has nothing Egyptian in it; it resembles the Hebrew word [redacted] badly transcribed." (emphasis in original) The name hieroglyph above the central figure is Chnm-Re, the Egyptian "First Creator" god who organized everything out of the primordial chaos.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

166 posted on 04/19/2018 5:43:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

It came to pass, when Joe was born;

there was no such thing, as Internet porn.

"It mattereth not", he was heard to say,

"I'll get some women: I'll find a way."

One day when walking, beside a brook;

A flash came to him, "I'll write a BOOK!"

"Grand and glorious, it will be;

Then folks will look way UP to me!

"To ME; one who talks with GOD;

(but some will say, "It's just a fraud.")

"He drinks too much. He wrote that thing."

But they, someday, will kiss my ring."

Who can resist, on plates of gold,

the story; long waiting; to be told;

Of far off lands, and wars aplenty;

Girls will swoon. Maybe ten or TWENTY!

To others, some already wed,

but my smooth tongue will turn that head.

To bind with me; eternal blessings;

(If I don't get SHOT, with wives I'm messing!)

But for me; It will not turn out well;

I'm afraid I'm headed: Straight For HELL!

167 posted on 04/19/2018 5:55:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Rather ironic since the Mormons have no idea whether the Book of Mormon was translated correctly because they don’t have the original text.

But they DO have this...

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

168 posted on 04/19/2018 5:58:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

We do have the original untranslated text of the Bible so we don’t need to worry whether it was translated correctly.

Uh; no we don't.

We have multiple COPIES of Scripture that was written through the years.

Our English language bibles are the result of much study of those copies.

169 posted on 04/19/2018 6:00:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: grey_whiskers; boatbums

Thus repeating the mistakes of the church in Corinth; where it was reported, one of the brethren was sleeping with his father’s wife, and yet the congregation was arrogant. I sometimes wonder whether the sexual immorality and greed among some of the ... famous church leaders, is related to the gratuity of the flocks.

It's hard to NOT notice the carnality of the Corinthian church and their abuse of the sign gifts.

Paul told them that they were not mature in Christ, a judgment he did not give to the other churches he wrote to. And they didn't have the same problem with exercising the gifts that the Corinthians did.

And here we live in a a very carnal age, with lifestyles and Scriptural shallowness demonstrated by the Corinthians, and imagine that, we have much the same problem exercising the gifts.

170 posted on 04/19/2018 6:14:01 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)

It isn't the language mellifluosity, it's whether the translator(s) use it to convey the exact sense of the original as the one Holy Spirit gave it in, without change, addition, deletion, or embroidery.

"Teaching them to observe^G5083 all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Mt. 28:20 AV)

==========

Strong's Number G5083

τηρέω
tēreō
tay-reh'-o

Strong's Definition:
From τηρός teros (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly
by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping;
and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), that is, to note (a prophecy;
figuratively to fulfil a command); by implication to detain (in custody; figuratively to maintain);
by extension to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried): -
hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.

Thayer's Definition:
1) to attend to carefully, take care of
. . 1a) to guard
. . 1b) metaphorically to keep, one in the state in which he is
. . 1c) to observe
. . 1d) to reserve: to undergo something
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from teros (a watch, perhaps akin to G2334)

Many modern Bible versions fail in translation method to adhere to this single command that is superlative to all others of Christ's commands. All modern versions fail if one counts that their underlying texts are the critical/eclectic Greek texts synthesized from the corrupted Sinaitic, Vatican, and Alexandrinian codices and thus unacceptable.

171 posted on 04/19/2018 6:15:13 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)

To: Zionist Conspirator

Simply discarding the “new testament” would solve all these problems—especially at a time when chrstianity is collapsing.

That would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Christianity does not stand and fall on the behavior of those who claim to be Christians.

The gospel is true because it's of GOD and it will continue to be true even when people are not.

And what some see as *Christianity collapsing*, others see as the death throes of sterile religiosity or a purifying of the church as God sifts out the chaff and tares from the wheat.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”

172 posted on 04/19/2018 6:23:11 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)

"Teaching them to observeG5083 all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Mt. 28:20 AV)

Did Jesus 'teach' folks to observe LENT?

173 posted on 04/19/2018 6:29:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

All modern versions fail if one counts that their underlying texts are the critical/eclectic Greek texts synthesized from the corrupted Sinaitic, Vatican, and Alexandrinian codices and thus unacceptable.

This seems to be; shall we say; a bit judgmental.

174 posted on 04/19/2018 6:30:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of the god of this world, but not the Word of the God of the universe.
I ran into a Filipino Mormon in Manila a few weeks ago. I asked him, so far as it is correctly translated into what? English, Tagalog, Bisaya, Warray, Ilocano, or what? I then asked if he could point out any parts of the Bible that were incorrectly translated. He couldn’t, of course. Maybe some FR Mormons can, but he couldn’t. By then I had all I could take, and didn’t want to talk about it anymore, so I asked him how he liked my new IPhone X. 😁😇👍

175 posted on 04/19/2018 6:31:23 AM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)

It isn't the language mellifluosity, it's whether the translator(s) use it to convey the exact sense of the original as the one Holy Spirit gave it in, without change, addition, deletion, or embroidery.

I see...

Matthew 28:20

“Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

King James Version (KJV)

176 posted on 04/19/2018 6:34:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: SeekAndFind; newgeezer

I got saved while in the Army. I was a complete atheist up to the instant that I was born again.

I had so much joy knowing that I was not an accidental product of evolution and that I had eternal life that I didn't really want to ask God for anything else. It was a month before I prayed to be taken out of Honduras and back home to my wife.

My point is, the joy of knowing God and the assurance of eternal life is more than any sinner deserves. It is a shame that people want more spiritual and material goodies in this life.

Even today I don't pray as much as many Christians except to give thanks for all the blessings I have.

177 posted on 04/19/2018 6:42:48 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (...the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light...)

Uh. You’ve posed a big block of questions, some of which you should probably do the homework and answer for yourself, because they don’t really have anything to do with Cessationist unbelief.

And I’ll try not to take umbrage at your patronizing tone.

1. Because the canon of Scripture was sealed after the 1st Century does not make a case that the gifts given at Pentecost (or the gifts that particularly offend modern-day Cessationists) somehow were stopped at that time...

... unless you believe God had some fancy reason to show off lots of signs and wonders in the 1st century church, and then put the brakes on for the rest of church history.

Without explanation.

2. The sealing of Scripture was a logistical necessity; whereby the gifts given at Pentecost are weapons of spiritual warfare, necessary for the building, continuance and maintanence of the church; as John teaches: “the antiChrist is already in the world”.

3. Cessationists such as yourself miss an important, if ominous, event that correlates with the sealing of Scripture in the First Century.

The spirit of antiChrist also came about in the First Century,
and you need the full armory of the gifts of the Spirit in the church for this reason.

4. You and any other Cessationist are left with choosing which Gifts of the Spirit you suppose God stopped in the first century.

5. And then you are left with having to excise much of the NT which discusses the functionality of these gifts in the body.

6. And then you have to explain which of the gifts ceased, and why these particular gifts needed to be stopped by God.

7. And then explain why God would play “Indian giver” with these gifts, and most importantly for the modern Berean...

... where this “cessation” of the gifts of Pentecost is spelled out in the Old Testament.

Good luck with that.

7. The timing of the Holy Spirit baptisms of John the Baptist’s disciples is not the point. The point is Paul preached the baptism of the Holy Spirit to them and they responded by prophesying and speaking in tongues, with joy.

And then Paul taught that “All should be ambitious to prophesy”.

(But I suppose you would add to Paul’s teaching on prophesy by saying:
“All believers in the first century church should be ambitious to prophesy,
but for those of you who came to Christ afterwards, forget about it.”)

8. You missed the point entirely about post Pentecostal prophesy for the modern or latter day Church. Prophets in the church do not occupy the “Old Testament office of the Prophet”. They can’t. That time is past, the New Covenant is already in force and the Holy Spirit has been poured out “to teach you all things”. The prophecies in the Bible are God’s Word. Church “prophets” cannot add to the Word of God, Scripture is sealed.

9. I’m not sure what you mean by the Bereans possessing some of God’s progressive revelation. The Word of God does not evolve.

If you are trying to nitpick the manner by which the canon of Scripture was sealed in the first Century, you have to argue with God, who oversaw the whole thing, and Christ foretold how the NT would be written.

In other words, seeing “how the sausage was made” during the first century sealing of the canon of Scripture does not discredit the fact God organized it all. He is God Almighty. Putting the Bible together wasn’t too difficult for Him.

10. Anointing in the OT for King Saul and the anointing of King David has nothing to do with the pouring out of the free gift of the Holy Spirit upon all mankind at Pentecost. Not sure why you don’t know this.

OT anointing means equipping for a specific task, done in the proper order under the OT Law. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost is the new universe of the promised Messianic age, that which the OT prophets longed to see but didn’t... because our era is “greater” than theirs in the Spirit.

We have a better thing than those believed before the Cross.

11. The order of water baptism before or after baptism of the Holy Spirit and its gifts doesn’t matter. Why does it matter to you?

The thief on the Cross with Christ was not baptized, but went to heaven. This proves our God mets us where we are at, even if we are hanging on a cross, slowly suffocating to death by crucifixion.

12. The bolding of the verses in Acts regarding John the Baptist’s disciples not knowing that they needed the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and then how they prophesied and spoke in tongues is a model for modern day Christians.

Note Paul added no qualifier:

“Hey, you Christians who are born after all of us first-hand witnesses of Christ have died, let me warn you: if you try this baptism of the Holy Spirit yourselves, don’t count on prophesying or speaking in tongues, that’s only for us. You just aren’t special, and don’t forget it.”

13. The gifts did not cease. What “ceased” is the belief that the gifts are for today because of false teachings and rank unbelief of Cessationism, probably because believing in the supernatural or the Devil offends people’s pride.

Assuming the gifts aren’t for today doesn’t make it so, and certainly didn’t make it so in the first century.

Cessationism is equal to the heresy of the charismatic NAR and their counterfeits, and equal in its wounding of the sheep.

We are not to despise prophecies nor quench the Holy Spirit of God, but instead to be Bereans:

“test the spirits, my beloved, for not every spirit comes from God... (for) the spirit of antichrist, which you have heard is coming, is already in the world...”

178 posted on 04/19/2018 6:54:14 AM PDT by Sontagged (Lord Jesus, please frogmarch Your enemies behind You as You've promised in Your Word)

The gospel is true because it's of GOD and it will continue to be true even when people are not.

How do you know it is "of GOD?" Because it wound up in the King James Bible and it wouldn't be there if it weren't?

It isn't authorized by the Torah and therefore is illegitimate and no different than any other later made-up religion.

179 posted on 04/19/2018 6:55:45 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vegam Yehudah tillachem biYrushalayim . . . .)

Those Mormons!

You can’t add something to a contract without changing it.

Same way you can’t add the Book of Mormon to the Word of God without changing it.

180 posted on 04/19/2018 7:06:12 AM PDT by Sontagged (Lord Jesus, please frogmarch Your enemies behind You as You've promised in Your Word)

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