should We Still Keep the Commandments?

Westside Christian Fellowshihp ^ | July 20, 2016 | Shane Idleman

[metmom]

Should We Still Keep The Commandments?

If you are skeptical because of past experiences with religion, understand that religion is not the answer—a relationship with Christ is. There is a clear difference.

Religion says, “I have to follow rules.” A relationship with Christ says, “I want to follow His plan for my life.”

Religion says, “I have to go to church.” A relationship with Christ says, “I want to position myself to learn more, worship Him and benefit from fellowship.”

Religion offers a set of rituals; a relationship with Jesus offers a guiding light.

Religion is man’s attempt to find God; relationship assures us of His presence.

Many lose sight of purpose because they have “religion” and not a true relationship with Christ. They may know Scripture but they often do not apply it to their lives. As a result, their relationship with God is cold and distant.

A fatal statement, yet so common is, “I know what God’s Word says, but…” For example: I know that I shouldn’t watch certain movies or television programs, but I enjoy then. I know that I shouldn’t date her, but she’s very attractive. I know that I shouldn’t go there, but everyone is doing it. I know what the Bible says, but it doesn’t apply now. I know that I need to go to church, pray, and read God’s Word, but I’m too busy.

[Ezekiel]

The Messiah *is* "the Law". The way, truth, and the life. The law of love.

Law = fundamental operating principle, like gravity. It is axiomatic that without law, the world is lawless.

The brightness of his coming really is going to fry the people who rebel against the Golden Rule (another law!! Love your neighbor as yourself).

Many people don't want simple. They want to virtue signal by weaponizing Scripture and berating the flock for not being able to be humble enough.

Established wisdom has really done a number on folks. It's pretty much a replay of the Gospel narratives.

Genesis 29:20 And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.

God really is funny. The most delightful *paradox* is that "The Law" really does save, when the text says the opposite. Very cute. Like a burning bush that should have been consumed, but there it was.

Puns, the lowest form of humor. What better way to destroy the wisdom of the wise?

The stone the establishment rejected has become the chief pun.

Stone (אבן) = alef + ben (son) = son #1 = chief son

[daniel1212]

Under the O.C., the glory of God was veiled from those who sought justification by the Law, while under the New, the veil is taken away (2Cor.3:14- 4:7).

Some contend that we ought to keep the seventh day Sabbath, as it is an everlasting covenant, yet as the table below shows it is not alone in that category. Neither does it's sanctification prior to the codification of the 10 commandments establish it as an ordinance to be obeyed (as under the Old Covenant) under the New Covenant, as it, like circumcision (likewise an everlasting covenant), is also part of the ceremonial prefigurements that the Lord Jesus would and has, fulfilled. As God rested from the work of creation the 7th day, the Lord Jesus rested from His work of atonement on the first day. The Lord then met the disciples on the first day of the week, and sent the Gift of the Holy Ghost on that day. (Jn. 20:1,19; Acts 2:1ff)

Further evidence that the 1^st day of the week became the primary day of Christian assembly is that the 1^st day is the only day specifically mentioned as a meeting day for a community of New Testament believers. (Acts 20:7; 1Cor.16:2) Meanwhile, 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, but the 4^th commandment is conspicuously absent, and now where is there amy command ever given under the New Covenant to the church to keep the 7^th day Sabbath. Nor is there any mention of an established church specifically meeting on the 7^th day, unlike on the 1^st.

EVERLASTING, FOREVER, PERPETUAL COMMANDS
Below is a list of everlasting, forever, perpetual (synonymous terms) covenants (binding agreements) or perpetual, forever type statutes and ordinances (laws). Note: While it is possible that “for ever” (#5769; also often translated as “everlasting” or “perpetual”) can mean less than eternal (Dt. 15:17) , that is rarely the case, but as in “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:”or “The righteousness of Thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live” (Ps. 119:144 – a good prayer), it usually denotes eternity!
1	Gn. 9:16; Rainbow in clouds a sign of everlasting covenant
2	Gn. 17:2-13; Circumcision an everlasting covenant.
3	.Ex.31:14-17; 7th day Sabbath a sign for a perpetual covenant throughout all Israel's generations.
4	Lv.24:5-8; Offering of shewbread-everlasting covenant-perpetual statute.
5	Num.18:19; Heave offering: a statute forever-covenant of salt forever.
6	.Num.25:12,13; Righteous Phineas given a covenant of peace..a covenant of everlasting priesthood.
7	Ex.12:14,24; Passover an ordinance forever.7
8	Ex.12:17; Feast of unleavened bread an ordinance forever.
9	Ex.27:20,21; Lv.24:3; light burning in Tabernacle: a statute forever.
10	Ex. 28:43; Nakedness of priests to be covered by a statute forever.
11	Ex.29:9; 40:15; Holy garments for the Aaronic Priesthood for a perpetual statute.
12	Ex.29:28; Lv.10:15; Num.18:8,11,18; Heave offering eaten by a statute forever
13	Ex.29:42; Animal sacrifices to be offered continually throughout all Israel's generations
14	Ex.30:8; Incense to be burned in Tab. perpetually throughout all generations.
15	Ex.30:10: Atonement on altar throughout all your generations.
16	Ex.30:21: Ceremonial washing by a statute forever.
17	Ex.30:31: Anointing with Holy Oil unto YHWH for sons of Aaron throughout all their generations.
18	Lv.3:17: Eating of fat + blood prohibited a perpetual statute.
19	Lv.6:13: Fire ever to be burning on the altar, to never go out.
20	Lv.6:18-20: Law of the meat offering: a statute forever.
21	Lv.6:22: Meat offering of priests: a statute forever.
22	Lv,7:34-36: Peace offerings a statute forever.
23	Lv.10:9: Drinking of wine, strong drink forbidden to priests going into Tab.: statute forever.
24	Lv.16:29-34: Day of atonement a everlasting statute, a statute forever.
25	Lv.17:7: Bringing in of sacrifices into Tab., not worshipping devils, a statute forever.
26	Lv23:14: Offering of first fruits unto YHWH a statute forever.
27	Lv.23:21: Feast of Pentecost: a statute forever.
28	Lv.23:41: Feast of Tabernacles: a statute forever.
29	Lv.25:34: Law of land reserved for Levites: a perpetual possession.
30	Num.10:8: Feast of Trumpets: an ordinance forever.
31	Num.10:15: One law for both Israelites and for the stranger in the land: an ordinance 4ever.
32	Num.18:23; Dt.18:5: Service of the Tab. reserved for Levites by a statute forever.
33	Num19:10: Law of washing garments after slaying red heifer: a statute forever.
34	Num.19:21:Water of separation a perpetual statute.
35	Dt.7:9 YHWH keeps covenant+mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments, as revealed in His rightly divided Word.

[Bishop_Malachi]

“Most want to pile on the rules and play battle of the doctrines, whereas the rules naturally are followed if love is the foundation and motivation.”

________________________________________________________

With all due respect I have to disagree. I can’t tell you how many people have “been on fire for God” in their youth...claiming to believe and be saved, only to slide into complacency and even disbelief later in life. Even those who have not completely fallen in their faith and have merely “backslidden”, merely rationalize grossly unholy living by the assertion that God’s too nice to deny a believing-sinner heaven. That belief is not biblical, and it’s a dangerous game to play.

[BipolarBob]

“Forever” in a covenant is valid until the covenant is expired. Circumcision like washings, meats and drinks were attached to an expiring covenant. No more sacrifices. The same as sinners are burned in Hell “forever”. To burn forever would mean eternal life forever (however horrible it would be). But that is not the case. Eternal life is through Jesus Christ only.

[Ezekiel]

the rules naturally are followed if love is the foundation and motivation.

Is not a license for lawlessness. "On fire" is not necessarily love. More like zeal without knowledge if people tire of it and trade it for unholy living, even to say, "Eh God is too nice to judge".

Righteous judgment is a fully balanced justice-mercy. God knows every context of every act in every detail. Nothing gets by Him, so He isn't mocked.

People who know Him know this and want to do things His way. If they mess up they do like David: admit it straight up, repent, and get right back on track. Not like Saul who kept making excuses (1 Sam 15).

Others mess with Him (and His son) at their own peril, thinking grace is blank check to abuse like the government abuses citizens' paychecks.

[daniel1212]

Love and fear both play a part in the conversion process. When a man loves God, then he’ll do what God commands when he [the man] feels like it.

That assertion is not what Scripture teaches, for instead it teaches that if one truly loves God then such will obey Him, and repent when convicted of not doing so.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:21)

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. (John 14:24)

When man truly fears God, then he does what God commands when God feels like it.

He will or at least try to, as Luther did as an ascetic monk, but the "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge," (Proverbs 1:7) and to know and obey God out of love is the goal and the higher motivation (not that i abide on it):

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)

Note however, that love and fear need not be contrasted, for rather than a fearful motivation such as a child may have of a one dimensional tormentor (as per Luther the monk) - or even that of a abuser - in contrast the Godly esteemed reverential awe of God which appreciates what God has, can and will do as a consuming fire of evil, including such as those who afflict the widow and the fatherless and cause ones to stumble, and as One whose so loved a wicked people that He gave what He did not created, who in turn loved me and gave Himself for me." And also daily loadeth us with benefits. Thanks be to God.

And thus as with" Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling," (Psalms 2:11) "walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied," (Acts 9:31) we can have two apparently conflict emotions, yet which actually go together. Thanks be to God.

But taking God’s commandments lightly means that God might take you lightly at Judgement.

Such would indicate one does not believe. One is not saved because his obedience makes him actually worthy, deserving, but because he believes with the manner of faith which effects obedience. The meek will inherit the earth, not because they earned it by being meek, but because such is a characteristic of saving faith. And which Reformers taught , though Scripture also warns of departing from the living, loving God by unbelief, and thus impenitent sinning. (Heb. 3:9,12; 10:38,39)

[BipolarBob]

and now where is there aNy command ever given under the New Covenant to the church to keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Mark 2:28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. Jesus declares His affiliation with the Sabbath.
Luke 4:16 And He came to Nazareth where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read. Jesus kept the Sabbath!
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures. This is three consecutive weeks on the Sabbath for those taking note.
Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day". This is an event that took place years after the crucifixion. Sounds like it is still valid to me.
The Law that God wrote Himself (Ex. 24:12) and spoke Himself (Deut. 4:12,13). You can't go wrong by following Gods own Words, speech or example while on earth. There is NO excuse in the day of judgment. REMEMBER the Sabbath day. The only one with remember in it.

[rwa265]

I guess that means the Sabbath is ending in Kansas City right now.

[daniel1212]

“Forever” in a covenant is valid until the covenant is expired. Circumcision like washings, meats and drinks were attached to an expiring covenant. No more sacrifices. The same as sinners are burned in Hell “forever”. To burn forever would mean eternal life forever (however horrible it would be). But that is not the case. Eternal life is through Jesus Christ only.

The everlasting covenant of circumcision came long before the giving of the Law, which, as with the 7th day Sabbath, was made part of the Law.

Moreover, the literal observance of such everlasting-type commands that foreshadowed the coming and work of Christ. “stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:10) "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” (Col. 2:13-17) .” (Col. 2:13-17) “

And thus the Galatians were chastised for observing “days, and months, and times, and years,” (Gal. 4:10) and nowhere is there any command ever given under the New Covenant to the church to keep the 7th day Sabbath. Nor is there any mention of an established church specifically meeting on the 7th day, unlike on the 1st.

In addition, "everlasting punishment" in the "fire that is not quenched" (Mk. 9:44,46,48) in the "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41) "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night," (Revelation 14:11) is indeed set forth as for-ever!

All which must be spinned as seen before and thus such hardly warrants much time.

[BipolarBob]

The everlasting covenant of circumcision came long before the giving of the Law

That seems hardly likely. The Law was what guided creation. The 7th day was created and "rested" by God Himself when creation was finished. He ordained it "in the beginning". Adam kept it as did his progeny though it is not recorded.

[BipolarBob]

nowhere is there any command ever given under the New Covenant to the church to keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Maybe it was taken as a given. Something so ingrained it did not have to be "commanded". In fact they probably met as often as they could. But they would have especially met on the Sabbath if they were physically able.

[21twelve]

***** Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” *******

Our preacher preached on the Ten Commandments awhile ago. Did one every week, maybe a couple of sermons on a few of them?

But each Sunday he would sort-of set things up (which is why I remember) by saying how the Hebrews had just been in slavery for hundreds of years. And the Ten Commandments were given to them so they would not be enslaved to their sins, but would instead be free and have a great relationship with God.

His sermons changed my views a bit as I always thought of them as “rules to get into Heaven” to a certain degree. (Well - I guess I still sort of do.) But they were provided by God so that we could have a great, loving relationship with Him (Righteousness means strong relationship or similar). They are provided so that we can have a great life here on Earth!

And no - not one without any pain or loss and one with lots of money - but one that can have Joy no matter what because we are Righteous with God. Again - easy enough words for me to write - living it all the time is another matter.

[amorphous]

The Messiah *is* "the Law". The way, truth, and the life. The law of love.

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James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law [ Sins ] and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

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Then:

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1 Peter 4:8 "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

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So, if "love covers over a multitude of sins", and we "stumble", can not love overcome that sin? IMO, Romans 2, among others, clears it up:

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...because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

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What is the thing ALL of the law hinge upon?

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Matt 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

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BTW, the above isn't only applicable to the hereafter, it's also very much in play during the here and now!

Thanks for the ping,

:)

[delchiante]

quote-It’s obvious that you’re so all fired up proud of your sabbath and law keeping to the letter of the Law but you are proud and judging others who disagree with you.

metmom, I think you have me mistaken.
I am not highlighting me. I am highlighting Him. And I am not an advocate for meat and drink offerings.. Christ ended that. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. But Christ didn’t do away with the 10 Commandments, which He actually reinforced, with one of His Parables..

And I don’t believe I am judging others who disagree with me- My disagreement is with Rome. I am testing Rome with His Scripture.

Those who follow Rome in certain things, may see that as judging them, but I am simply using His Word to test and prove all things.

Rome is usually fair game here..

[daniel1212]

That seems hardly likely. The Law was what guided creation. The 7th day was created and "rested" by God Himself when creation was finished. He ordained it "in the beginning". Adam kept it as did his progeny though it is not recorded.

Plainly Wrong. The everlasting covenant of circumcision was instituted in Gn. 17, long before the giving of the Law. Nor did God manifest observing the 7th day as part of what constituted obedience to God before the Law, while things such as fornication/adultery, lying, envy, murder, stealing, etc. and even eating blood are all manifest as contrary to what God required of man long before the giving of the Law.

Adam kept it as did his progeny though it is not recorded.

Such a bold assertion is reading into Scripture what you can only wish was there. Do you really think the Holy Spirit would leave such a primary requirement and or practice out of the examples of men before the Law?

If 7th day worshipers wrote the Bible then the requirement or custom of keeping the 7th day would be right there with the command to procreate.Instead, the 7th day worshipers cannot claim Abraham as an example, nor anyone else before the Law.

[daniel1212]

Maybe it was taken as a given.

"Maybe?!" You mean such a cardinal practice is without any actual example of the NT church keeping it, while the Holy Spirit shows the disciples meeting on the first day, and treating that the sabbath as part of the ceremonial law.

In fact they probably met as often as they could. But they would have especially met on the Sabbath if they were physically able.

Which, as with the assertion that Abraham kept the 7th day, is only assumed, which absence of substantiation leaves your required observance untenable as one.

[daniel1212]

“Most want to pile on the rules and play battle of the doctrines, whereas the rules naturally are followed if love is the foundation and motivation.”

With all due respect I have to disagree. I can’t tell you how many people have “been on fire for God” in their youth...claiming to believe and be saved, only to slide into complacency and even disbelief later in life

There is no contradiction here. The rules naturally are followed if love is the foundation and motivation, and thus the examples you invoke simply have not kept their first love.

[Bishop_Malachi]

“....thus the examples you invoke simply have not kept their first love.”

But is the experience of “first love” by which we tell many Christians that you have “eternal peace” (in the sense of a known-security of one’s salvation). Are you saying that the loss of this love has no impact on their salvation?

[boatbums]

I work on two. Love God. Love your neighbor. Keep it simple.

Good advice:

Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

[Elsie]

Where is that in the scriptures?

Genesis 1:5
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

The last day is the Sabbath...

Saturday = sábado en Espanol