New Study: The Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo Covered the Same Person

Aletelial ^ | April 11, 2016 | Paraula

[Arthur McGowan]

The wounds on the Shroud are in the wrists.

[Arthur McGowan]

The carbon dating was botched. The piece of cloth used wasn’t part of the Shroud.

[Arthur McGowan]

Nothing.

[mumblypeg]

“Read Holy Blood, Holy Grail...”

Wacked out conspiracy theory—promotes the notion that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and had children, because “clues” were supposedly planted in certain renaissance-era paintings, plus a whole lot of other “clues” and secret societies and elaborate coverup schemes originating purely in the authors’ imaginations.
There is NO evidence that Jesus had a “family” consisting of wife or subsequent heirs.
Dan Brown based his DaVinci Code on Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Why would you recommend BS like this as if it were valid?

There is evidence that Jesus’ mother spent her remaining years in the city of Ephesus, where she was cared for by the apostle John. Jesus instructed John to do so. IIRC there is a house in Ephesus that according to legend is where Mary lived.
Whether or not Jesus mayhave had brothers —IOW whether Mary may have had biological children or step-children with Joseph—is a source of debate. Good luck with that one.

There are numerous source materials tracing the travels of the various apostles. Peter was crucified in Rome. His bones are beneath St. Peter’s Basilica. Paul was beheaded in Rome. Thomas traveled to India. Etc.

[al_c]

This would then tend to contradict the carbon dating of the shroud to the 13th century.

That’s been debunked. The sample used in the carbon dating test came from an area that had been patched. Microscopic views of that particular area showed a much different material pattern than the rest of the shroud.

[GreyFriar]

Ping to: New Study: The Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo Covered the Same Person

[Yulee]

If you look up the word hand as used in Hebrew and Greek and in the Bible you will find the following:

“The Hebrew words are used in a large variety of idiomatic expressions, part of which have passed into the Greek (through the Sepuagint) and into modern European languages (through the translations of the Bible; see Oxford Hebrew Lexicon, under the word “yadh”). We group what has to be said about the word under the following heads:

1. The Human Hand:

Various Uses:

The human hand (considered physically) and, anthropopathically, the hand of God (Genesis 3:22; Psalms 145:16):

The hand included the wrist, as Will be seen from all passages in which bracelets are mentioned as ornaments of the hand, e.g. Genesis 24:22,30,47; Ezekiel 16:11; 23:42, or where the Bible speaks of fetters on the hands (Judges 15:14, etc.).”
_____________________________________________

The point being raise in the article, and not clearly stated, is that if the two pieces of cloth covered the same person, the shroud is older than demonstrated by the carbon dating process, done not long ago on the shroud.

It is believed that the test was done on a patched area on the edge of the shroud. The person doing the patching inter-weaved new material into the burnt shroud, after it was damaged by fire.

The important point is that the chain of possession of the face cloth is much older, and can be dated long before the time noted through the shroud's recent carbon dating.

Back prior to 1974 I read accounts of the discovery of the remains of a crucified man that demonstrate that nails were driven through the wrists of the individual crucified. The shroud's occupant also had nails driven through his wrist.

This being said, I have always been skeptical of stigmata signs in the palms of the hands. Romans would not have changed their method of crucifixion over time. Ropes would have allowed the individual to pull upward and take part of the weight off the feet. The Romans wanted the cruelest method possible, and the most painful.

[Kolokotronis]

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/08/synaxarion-for-holy-mandylion-of-edessa.html

[Unam Sanctam]

I think most of the favored theories involve the identity of the Shroud with the Mandylion of Edessa, which was in Edessa in modern Turkey and then Constantinople for the first millenium AD, only being brought to the West by the Crusaders after the sack of Constantinople. I don’t know what legend says of the travels of the Sudarium of Orvieto.

[Claud]

I guess I would prefer God reveal the TRUTH to me if he is going to manifest a substantial revelation through me.

None of the parables that Christ told were historical. Not a single one of them ever happened. Are they any less true?

I am not saying that truth is relative, mind you. I am saying that truth is more than merely historical. And that for a Christian in the Middle Ages, the *symbol* of St. Francis bearing the wounds of Christ was more important than the exact *location* of those wounds.

[LS]

Wow. Impressive.

[Campion]

I wouldn’t assume that crucifixion was always done exactly the same way. People can be nailed through the wrist, or they can be nailed through the palm and their weight supported a different way (ropes around the wrists, etc.).

[Pelham]

bump

[LS]

Something else I’ve thought about is this: while we know Alexander crucified enemies, I have not researched the punishment of crucifixion to find out how universal it was prior to Alexander.

My point is, does anyone find it odd that the Old Testament prophets would write about this form of punishment when, in fact, in their world stoning was the typical means of capital punishment? In other words, it seems to add further weight to the prophecy that Jesus was killed by a method that the OT prophets of the day had very little experience with . . . or am I missing something?

[LS]

Yes, thanks all. See my question, above, though on the universality of crucifixion in the pre-Alexandrian world.

[VermiciousKnid]

I’m not sure we’re talking about the same show, but I’ve seen this one entitled “The Real Face of Jesus,” and it was fascinating.

Besides watching the emergence of a 3-dimentional face come from the Shroud, I found the reaction of the lead scientist to be extremely interesting.

I saw signs of belief in his face at the end.

Anyway, here’s a link to the program if you haven’t seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJPJ4JwHeE

Regards,

[arielguard]

People were crucified through hands as well demonstrated by the evidence presented in this new article.

“Three nails where found in the ossuary with pieces of hand bones attached to two of them, suggesting the victim had been crucified.”

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/.premium-1.587977

[Boogieman]

It probably depended on who was doing the crucifixions.

The professional executioners probably did it through the wrist, but what if they had the day off? Joe Schmoe centurion probably had no clue how to do it properly and all bets were off.

[Swordmaker]

New Study: The Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo Covered the Same Person — PING

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[zot]

Thanks for the ping. This study adds topographical evidence to the conclusion that the Shroud and the Sundarium covered the same person. The preponderance of evidence from both supports the conclusion that person was Jesus Christ.