laimed to have an apparation from an angel teaching them to pray in the spring of 1916. They were asked to pray repeatedly by the angel who appeared to them. This is why the Catholics were convinced that they have to pray repeatedly.Posted on 03/24/2015 8:06:07 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Just last Sunday, a local newspaper paper released an article teaching that the praying of the Holy Rosary is Bible-based. In the first two paragraphs, the writer admittedly says that there is no passage in the Bible teaching nor mentioned about the praying of Rosary.
However, in the following paragraphs, the writer justified the praying of the Rosary basing it on the repetition of historical events of some Bible characters (like Gideon as he mentioned) about Israel’s history.
I don’t know if the writer of this article did some research about the origin of rosary and how it was deeply encouraged for Roman Catholics.
Praying of Rosary was encouraged when Lucia Dos Santos and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto claimed to have an apparation from an angel teaching them to pray in the spring of 1916. They were asked to pray repeatedly by the angel who appeared to them. This is why the Catholics were convinced that they have to pray repeatedly.
The flaw however in the story was that, the angel gave two sets of completely different prayers. The angel appeared to the three children three times.
Then after a year, 1917, it was said that Our Lady of Rosary had an apparitions for 7 times. In her second apparition the Our Lady said:
“I wish you to come here the 13th of next month; that you say the Rosary every day, and that you learn to read. In succeding months I will tell you what else I want.” “I would like to ask you to bring us to Heaven“, said Lucy. “Yes, Giacinta and Francis will be among the few, but you must stay here for a long time. Jesus wants to help Himself of you to make Me known and loved. God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants to use you to establish in the world a devotion to my Immaculate Heart. I promise salvation to those who embrace it, and their souls will be loved by God as flowers placed by myself to adorn His throne.” Lucy asked: “Will I stay here alone”?, “Don’t be discouraged , I will not abandon you ever. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and through it will conduct you to God.”
Now here are the flaws of this apparition. First, the Our Lady is telling the children to teach the people to make her known and be loved. Note that the apparition was initiated not by Jesus, nor an angel, but the very person who wants to be made known. It is like, someone came to you and asked you using the name of your friend to introduce her to other people that you know.
The second flaw, Our Lady promises salvation to those who embrace this command. A completely heretical claim, and totally in contrast to what the Bible is saying. The Bible is very clear in saying that “…whosoever believes in Him (Jesus) will not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).” Only God can give salvation. This is the Biblical truth that cannot be altered, deducted nor added.
Third flaw, Our Lady claims that her immaculate heart will be our refuge and through it will conduct you to God. This is another contradiction to what the Bible is saying. “Come to me all you labor and are heavily burdened and I will give you rest (Matt.11:28)”, “I am the way the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6)”.
The truth is, there is only one mediator between God and man, it is only Jesus Christ (Hebrews chapters 6,7,8,9, and 10)
This is the statement coming from the third apparition:
“In october I will tell you who I am, that which I want, and I will do a miracle that all can see and believe. Sacrifice yourselves for sinners, and say often this prayer, especially during any sacrifice: “O my Jesus, I offer this for love of Thee, for the conversion of poor sinners, and in reparation for all the sins commited against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.“
The flaw of the third apparition is the claiming of honor which belongs to Jesus Christ, and the idea of co-equality with Jesus. Though she did not claim co-equality, but the fact of showing that people committed sins against her proposes the idea of deity that people needs to be so sorry for not recognizing her. The Bible tells us that there are three persona where we committed sins, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And now, here comes the Mary, an addition to the Holy Trinity.
“You have seen Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save future souls God wishes to establish in the world the devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved.” Then She said:” If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will scatter her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecution of the Church. The good will be martyed, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be destroyed…But in the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, Russia will be converted, and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world“. “Do you want to learn a prayer?” the vision asked, “Yes we do!” the children responded. “When you recite the Rosary, say at the end of each decade: Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Your Mercy.“
Now let’s look at this additional quotations from the third apparition. This is more like “Our Lady” centered command rather than “Jesus” centered command. Russia will be consecreted to Our Lady of Rosary than instead of Jesus. Notice the number of recitation of the Rosary. At the end of each decade (10), there is only one calling for Jesus help.
This is quoted from the last (6th) apparition
“I am the Lady of the Rosary, I desire here a chapel in my honor to be built, that people continue to recite the Rosary every day. Will the war finish. The war is going to end, and the soldiers will soon return to their homes.” Then Lucy asked: “may I ask you for cures and conversions, will you grant them?”. “Some yes, others no. It is necessary that they ask pardon for their sins, that they don’t offend God our Lord, and that he is already too much offended.” “Do you Want anything else from me?” Lucy asked. “I do not want anything more.“
The flaw of the 6th apparition is that the Lady of the Rosary is asking for a chapel in “HER” honor, and not Jesus’ nor the Father’s honor. We have to note that taking glory which supposed to be for God is a serious sin, this is idolatry.
The apparition is completely directing people in a wrong path. It is completely in contradiction with what the Bible is saying. The Bible warn us about these kinds of apparitions in Galatians 1:8 “But even though we (referring to Paul and his companions) or an angel from heaven, which should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.” This is a strong warning that we should be careful in believing apparitions especially if it gives another teachings that what the Bible already have taught us.
Just some additional observations concerning the apparition of Our Lady of Rosary. Our Lady appeared “6” times. In Hebrew culture (the Israelite culture), 6 is the imperfect number. A number usually associated with evil things. Thus, the number of the Beast in the Book of Revelations tells us that it is 666.
Another observation is the dates of the apparition. The apparition dates are significantly on the 13th of every month of that year. Even until, Roman Catholics believe that 13th is always associated with evil things like Friday the 13t h bad luck and not placing 13th floor on buildings. Not to mention all the horror movies that happens on Friday the 13th.
Now let me ask you, do you really believe that these apparitions comes from God? These apparition and commands are completely in contrast to what the Bible teaches us. They are “Our Lady of Rosary” centered rather than “God” centered. The apparitions promotes glory and honor for “Our Lady of Rosary” rather than the glory of God. And finally, even culture related things are in contradiction to the apparitions. Not to mention its lack of Apostolicity and Biblical support.
;-)
And by the same token, "Trinity" is not in the Bible..
Read the guidelines on my profile page by clicking on my name at the bottom of this post.
Open threads are in a town square format.
Posters may argue for or against beliefs, deities, religious authorities, etc. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule. “Open” RF debate is often contentious.
It requires thick skin. A poster must be able to make his points while standing his ground, suffering adverse remarks about his beliefs - or letting them roll off his back.
Members of religions which are as much culture as belief sometimes take religious debate personally. If you keep getting your feelings hurt because other posters ridicule or disapprove or hate what you hold dear, then you are too thin-skinned to be involved in “open” RF debate. You should IGNORE “open” RF threads altogether and instead post to RF threads labeled “prayer” “devotional” “caucus” or “ecumenical.”
That's the heart of the problem: the words have but one meaning. Roman Catholicism tries to change what they mean to conform to a non-biblical doctrine.
When I pray for someone, or they pray for me, I am praying to God...not Mary. She's not omniscient; she hears no prayer. Only The Almighty does.
Hoss
That happens when you get a Master of Arts in Catholic Philosophical Studies.
“using a simple memory device to say certain prayers in a certain order is forbidden in the Bible?”
Saying “certain prayers in a certain order” actually is addressed in the Bible, and referred to as “vain repetitions”. Prayers should come directly from a person’s heart and mind, thereby making a “memory device” unnecessary. Fondling beads is just weird. (And don’t they kiss the beads, too?)
People think that parroting The Lord’s Prayer is praying, too, when it was meant to be more of template. We weren’t told to “pray this prayer”; instructions were to pray in this “manner”.
Frequently when taking stock of my own words and actions I ask myself if I am in violation of Christ’s greatest commandment. It is simple in theology but difficult in practice, as we observe on many of these religious threads.
Why not just call this the anti-Catholic thread and be done with pretense that this is about anything else? That’s what it always looks like.
I see no difference, in terms of "one mediator," between asking the "living" for their prayers and asking the "dead" for their prayersNot quite. Actually you've wandered a little off the path of logic.
Please reread the entirety of my earlier post before you make any more accusations. I addressed the rest of what you wrote beforehand, in what I wrote about "the dead," and here I was especially careful to include "in terms of 'one mediator'" right in the middle in order to avoid misreadings.
Mary is dead; in Heaven no doubt, but NOT omniscient; asking you friend to pray for you is reasonable; that person, properly, would be praying to GOD on your behalf; not to Mary.See the difference?
Not in terms of "mediatorship"--at least in terms of how the earlier conversation was going in terms of what was being called asking someone, such as Mary, "to pray for us" to God.
I'm not talking about something like thinking of or addressing Mary (or someone else along these lines) as anything like a deity in her own right, whatever form doing so may take in prayer or similar practices. (I'd even say that praying to someone else as if he or she were a deity would go even beyond the mediatorship question: in other words, the "recipient" would be even more than such a mediator would be.)
(I'm not Catholic, but one would probably also say that a saint in heaven doesn't need to be omniscient to hear requests to pray for us. I see such a discussion as on-topic within the greater context in this thread, but I'm not debating either way beyond pointing out, as I did earlier, that it's harder to find scriptural justification for asking for their prayers than to find clear justification for asking the living for their prayers.)
As I wrote earlier, I'd still say that there are stronger objections than using "one mediator" in this fashion.
Steeple Song I don't care how many buses you own Or the size of your sanctuary It doesn't matter how steep your steeple is If it's sittin' on a cemetery I don't care if you pave your parking lot Or put pads upon your pews What good is picture perfect stage If you're missin' all the cues? I don't care if your pastor's super-powered And your program's always new What you need is love and truth And men are going to come to you It doesn't matter that you know the Bible If it's all just in your head The thing I need to ask you is Have you done the things I said? Do you love your wife? For her and for your children Are you layin' down your life? What about the others? Are you livin' as a servant to Your sisters and your brothers? Do you make the poor man beg you for a bone? Do the widow and the orphan cry alone? I don't care if you pray for miracles I don't care if you speak with tongues I don't care if you said you love Me In every song you've sung It doesn't matter that your sacrifice of praise Is loud enough to raise the dead The thing I need to ask you is Have you done the things I said? Repeat Chorus Lord, when were You a prisoner That we did not come to You? When was it that we saw You sick That we didn't follow through Every time you turned your head And pretended not to see When you did it not to the least of these You did it not to Me
Words and music by Don Francisco © 1979 New Spring (Admin. by Brentwood-Benson Music Publishing, Inc.)
Maybe you and your church fit in here. Try the shoe on...
Will you be having a bash the Jews thread too?
Yes. In all of life. Sometimes we're tired or frustrated and BANG, the tongue engages without the brain. One of man's great failings. My MiL told me to never pray for patience. :-)
I'm as guilty as anyone else.
Proverbs 15:1
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
Dedicating themselves to Mary? I’ve dedicated myself to Christ alone. Put whomever you want in His place but don’t expect happy times.
That’s nice.
A paraphrase.
How’s it superior to the original?
No. I don’t post threads that mock the faith of others. I don’t see that as the Christian thing to do.
So she is the mother of Jesus not the mother of God. Finishing with invectives is not a strong scriptural basis.
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
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