Will there be a rapture?

Unsealed.org ^ | 3/12/15 | Gary

[amessenger4god]

Will there be a rapture? Is it pre-tribulational? I believe the answer is an emphatic 'yes' to both questions. Here are some key points:

1. For starters, I want to address the small, but growing minority of Christians who emphatically state that the rapture isn't even in the Bible. Now I believe it is one thing to hold to various views as to the timing of the rapture event, but no rapture at all? I believe that this belief is thoroughly nonsensical. The argument often takes shape the same way that Jehovah's Witnesses will say that the Bible doesn't teach the doctrine of the "Trinity" since the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible... yet the doctrine of the Trinity is found all throughout the Bible, from Genesis 1:1-3 to Revelation.  The word "rapture" is not in the Bible, end-of-story.

This argument doesn't even make sense--of course the English word "rapture" is not in the Bible. So too the Latin word that we derive "rapture" from is also not in the Bible. The New Testament was written in Greek! The Greek word for "rapture" is in the Bible. Even setting aside all other scriptures, parables, patterns, and parallels that may support the rapture, the rapture event is clearly and unequivocally taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. This passage doesn't necessarily answer the question as to the timing of the event, but yes, the rapture is going to happen. A trumpet will sound and the dead in Christ and those who are "alive and remain" will be "caught up" into the clouds. It plainly, unequivocally says believers will meet the Lord in the air.

2. Next, I want to talk about perhaps the most common argument against the pre-tribulational rapture. This argument is now known to be factually incorrect. So if you believe in a mid-trib, pre-wrath, or post-trib rapture, that's fine by me, but don't use this argument. The argument is that the pre-tribulational rapture theory was invented by a girl in 19th century Scotland named Margaret MacDonald. This is patently false.  For starters, 18 years prior to MacDonald, a Catholic Jesuit priest espoused his belief in the pre-trib rapture in his book The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty.  We now also have clear, extra-Biblical support for the pre-trib rapture as early as 373AD (Ephraem the Syrian who clearly taught the doctrine, even using exact language).  See here: http://www.raptureready.com/rr-margaret-mcdonald.html and here: http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/why_some_reject.htm

3. Thirdly, many Christians will often argue that the pre-tribulational rapture is not foreshadowed in the Bible and that the doctrine is just "easy-escapism". In essence they will say that God doesn't remove us from trials and tribulation, He just protects us in the midst of it.

I actually agree with their point about God protecting us in the midst of tribulation. However, this has nothing to do with the pre-tribulational rapture, which I believe is CLEARLY foreshadowed. The 70th week of Daniel (final 7 years of the age), are the years specifically set aside for God to pour out His OWN wrath. Not just the normal trials and tribulations every generation has faced because of the consequences of sin, but a tribulation God Himself sends on the world, as the Scripture says to test an unbelieving and unrepentant world (Revelation 3:10; see also Luke 21:36). That same passage says clearly says that God will keep believers from facing that coming tribulation. Elsewhere the Bible says "we are not appointed unto wrath" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

So, yes, it is correct to say God doesn't always remove us from worldy tribulation, but He does ALWAYS remove us from His wrath if we trust in Him. This is foreshadowed:

• In the story of Noah. Noah and his family escape into the ark, and THEN the rains came. They were lifted up above the flood.
• In the story of Lot. Lot and his family were taken out of Sodom and THEN the twin cities were destroyed.

Interestingly, it is these two stories that Jesus refers to when talking about the time at the end of the age before His second advent.

4. "Apostasia": https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html

5. Finally, there is so much Biblical strength to the argument that I simply can't ignore:

http://raptureintheairnow.com/?topic=250-reasons-for-the-pre-trib-rapture

[LambSlave]

I adamantly disagree that Jesus or the disciples ever acknowledged the notion a pre-tribulational collection of all believers, and every group of Christians until John Darby saw things the same way.

[G Larry]

Rapture is an invention of the1800’s.

Nobody pretended to interpret that concept from Scripture prior to that time.

[savedbygrace]

There are two periods of time in the Bible that relate to this subject.

1) The Tribulation (of the saints)

2) The Wrath of God (on those who refuse to believe God)

The catching away of the church and the return of Yeshua, will occur between those two periods of time.

[needmorePaine]

I refuse to believe humans have God figured out.

Well, we do have the power of discernment. We are imperfect, but we still have the ability.


As for the hour of His return, we will not know the day or the hour.

[ryan71]

Welcome and how did you learn about FR?

[cuban leaf]

I refuse to believe humans have God figured out.

---

“Now we see as through a glass darkly, but then face to face.”

This is why ANYONE who says their interpretation of scripture on ANY subject in the bible is THE correct one (with the exception of the thing symbolized by communion) is demonstrating that they don’t know what they don’t know.

I talked to a guy with a doctorate in theology a few weeks ago and he said something interesting. He said that regarding teachings of Christianity (other than its foundational teaching), the more vehemently a person argues that theirs is the correct interpretation and yours is absolutely wrong, the less they probably know, and the more likely it is they are just parroting what someone has told them.

I notice it in evolution discussions. The scientists actually studying evolution are not the ones beating you over the head with a copy of Darwin’s infamous tome.

[DungeonMaster]

John Darby!

[LambSlave]

What happened to the apostles? How many of them suffered horribly, to the death? How about the tens of thousands of Christians executed by the Romans? The Communists? The “God’s wrath is different” argument holds no water; it is patently unproveable since God has never poured His wrath upon the world since Jesus’ resurrection. We do know that when He was going to pour it out on Sodom and Gomorrah, He was perfectly okay with destroying all the godly people there along with the wicked; He was only persuaded by the multiple petitions on behalf of the godly by Abraham to refrain from destroying the godly, allowing Lot and his family to escape.

[CynicalBear]

>>I adamantly disagree<<

You can disagree with whatever you want. The truth is that scripture teaches the removal of the ekklesia of Christ prior to the last seven years. The age of the Gentiles ends and the last seven years of the 490 promised to Israel begins. It's why the people of the nation of Israel are now being gathered back to the land they were promised.

[DungeonMaster]

John 17:2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Christians, by definition and election, "know God".

[Big Red Badger]

Rapture,,
it could happen.
I think making it a keystone in You’re belief system is a mistake.

Study .

[b4its2late]

One of these days, yes.

Welcome to FR!

[PieterCasparzen]

If the Bible clearly taught this, you would not need to post this thread to convince anyone.

[Alex Murphy]

I refuse to believe humans have God figured out.

FR thread:
Evangelical scholars solve Book of Revelation's mysteries

[ItsOurTimeNow]

>>The perousia.<<

Yep...that’s the way I’ve always understood it. A singular event.

[Old Sarge]

Excellent points, thank you!

[Salvation]

amessenger4god

Since Mar 12, 2015

[Salvation]

No

[PieterCasparzen]

You can disagree with whatever you want. The truth is that scripture teaches the removal of the ekklesia of Christ prior to the last seven years. The age of the Gentiles ends and the last seven years of the 490 promised to Israel begins. It's why the people of the nation of Israel are now being gathered back to the land they were promised.

If this was clearly taught in the Bible it would be easy to demonstrate it to believers who knew their Bibles.

The Bible does teach, however, that it is folly to try to calculate the year of Christ's return.

[ShadowAce]

How many of them suffered horribly, to the death?

None of them--at the hands of God. The Great Tribulation will be by the Hand of God--not by sinners.

That being said, I don't believe that the church is mentioned after chapter 3 in Revelation. Israel, yes, but not the church.