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Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation
Catholic Defense ^ | February 25, 2015

Posted on 02/25/2015 11:50:17 AM PST by NYer

Lines from the Lord's Prayer, in various languages.
From the Eucharist Door at the Glory Facade of the Sagrada Família in Barcelona, Spain.

It's Lent in Rome. That means it's time for one of the great Roman traditions: station churches. Each morning, English-speaking pilgrims walk to a different church for Mass. This morning, on the way to St. Anastasia's, I was once again struck by a line in the Our Father: “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” That's a hard thing to pray, It doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Even the Catechism seems shocked by it:

This petition is astonishing. If it consisted only of the first phrase, "And forgive us our trespasses," it might have been included, implicitly, in the first three petitions of the Lord's Prayer, since Christ's sacrifice is "that sins may be forgiven." But, according to the second phrase, our petition will not be heard unless we have first met a strict requirement. Our petition looks to the future, but our response must come first, for the two parts are joined by the single word "as."
Upon arriving at Mass, I discovered that the Gospel for the day was Matthew 6:7-15, in which Christ introduces this prayer. That seemed too serendipitous to simply be a coincidence. Then Archbishop Di Noia, O.P., got up to preach the homily, and it was all about how to understand this particular petition. So here goes: I think that the Lord's Prayer is flatly inconsistent with sola fide, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone. Here's why.

In this line of the Lord's Prayer, Jesus seems to be explicitly conditioning our forgiveness on our forgiving. Indeed, it's hard to read “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” any other way. What's more, after introducing the prayer, Jesus focuses on this line, in particular. Here's how He explains it (Matthew 6:14-15):
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
So to be forgiven, you must forgive. If you do, you'll be forgiven. If you don't, you won't be. It's as simple as that.

So Christ has now told us three times that our being forgiven is conditioned upon our forgiving, using the most explicit of language. How does Luther respond to this? “God forgives freely and without condition, out of pure grace.” And what is Calvin's response? “The forgiveness, which we ask that God would give us, does not depend on the forgiveness which we grant to others.”

Their theology forces them to deny Christ's plain words, since admitting them would concede that we need something more than faith alone: we also need to forgive our neighbors. They've painted themselves into a corner, theologically. To get out of it, they change this part of the Our Father into either a way that we can know that we're saved (Luther's approach: that God “set this up for our confirmation and assurance for a sign alongside of the promise which accords with this prayer”) or a non-binding moral exhortation (Calvin's: “to remind us of the feelings which we ought to cherish towards brethren, when we desire to be reconciled to God”).

Modern Protestants tend to do the same thing with these verses, and countless other passages in which Christ or the New Testament authors teach us about something besides faith that's necessary for salvation. We see this particularly in regards to the Biblical teaching on the saving role of Baptism (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21) and works (Matthew 25:31-46; Romans 2:6-8; James 2). There are three common tactics employed:

  1. Reverse the causality. If a passage says that you must do X in order to be saved, claim that it really means that if you're saved, you'll just naturally do X. Thus, X is important for showing that you're saved, but it doesn't actually do anything, and certainly isn't necessary for salvation (even if the Bible says otherwise: Mark 16:16).
  2. No True Scotsman. If Scripture says that someone believed and then lost their salvation (like Simon the Magician in Acts 8, or the heretics mentioned in 2 Peter 2), say that they must not have ever actually believed (even if the Bible says the opposite: Acts 8:13, 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22).
  3. Spiritualize the passage into oblivion. If the Bible says that Baptism is necessary for salvation, argue that this is just a “spiritual” Baptism that means nothing more than believing. And if you need to get around the need to be “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) spiritualize this, too, to get rid of the need for water. Reduce everything to a symbol, or a metaphor for faith.

In fairness to both the Reformers and to modern Protestants, they want to avoid any notion that we can earn God's forgiveness or our salvation. This doesn't justify denying or distorting Christ's words, but it's a holy impulse. And in fact, it was the theme of Abp. Di Noia's homily this morning. Grace is a gift, and what's more, grace is what enables us to forgive others. This point is key, because it explains why Christ isn't teaching something like Pelagianism.

God freely pours out His graces upon us, which bring about both (a) our forgiveness, and (b) our ability to forgive others. But we can choose to accept that grace and act upon it, or to reject it. And that decision has eternal consequences. Such an understanding is harmonious with Christ's actual words, while avoiding any idea that we possess the power to earn our salvation.

So both Catholics and Protestants reject Pelagianism, but there's a critical difference. Catholics believe that grace enables us to do good works, whereas Protestants tend to believe that grace causes us to do good works. To see why it matters, consider the parable of the unmerciful servant, Matthew 18:21-35. In this parable, we see three things happen:

  1. A debtor is forgiven an enormous debt of ten thousand talents (Mt. 18:25-27). Solely through the grace of the Master (clearly representing God), this man is forgiven his debts (sins). He is in a state of grace.
  2. This debtor refuses to forgive his neighbor of a small debt of 100 denarii (Mt. 18:28-30). The fact that he's been forgiven should enable the debtor to be forgiving: in being forgiven, he's received the equivalent of 60,000,000 denarii, and he's certainly seen a moral model to follow. But he turns away from the model laid out by the Master, and refuses to forgive his neighbor.
  3. This debtor is unforgiven by his Master (Mt. 18:32-35). The kicker comes at the very end: “And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”
Now, consider all of the Protestant work-arounds discussed above. To deny that this debtor was ever really forgiven would be an insult to the Master and in contradiction to the text. To say that, if we're forgiven, we'll just naturally forgive is equally a contradiction: this debtor is forgiven, and doesn't. To treat the need to forgive the other debtor as a non-binding moral exhortation would have been a fatal error. 

This parable gets to the heart of the issue. The Master's forgiveness is freely given, and cannot be earned. But that doesn't mean it's given unconditionally or irrevocably. Quite the contrary: Christ shows us in this parable that it can be repealed, and tells us why: if we refuse to forgive, we will not be forgiven. It turns out, the Lord's Prayer actually means what it says.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: bumpusadsummum; calvin; catholic; faithalone; forgiveness; forgivingtrespasses; luther; ourfather; paternoster; prayer; solafide; thelordsprayer; theourfather
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To: Legatus
Elsie, may I call you Bernice, or perhaps Matilda, or better yet...



281 posted on 02/26/2015 5:54:29 PM PST by Elsie
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To: Mark17
It's no different then the Mormons or JWs.

 

If you have cable TV, there won’t be much on to watch.


 

 

 

 

If there isn’t much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.


 

 

 

 

If you open your door, you will see mormons.


 

 

 

 

If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into “praying about whether something is true”.


 

 

 

 

If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.


 

 

 

 

If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!


 

 

 

 

If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.


DON’T be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.

282 posted on 02/26/2015 5:57:05 PM PST by Elsie
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To: CynicalBear

Thank you, I agree with you and your wise grandfather.

“Christ Alone”


283 posted on 02/26/2015 5:57:26 PM PST by genesismt
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To: metmom

Thank you, I have been on FR for many years, I never posted often but due to many moves, passwords and email addresses I forgot my password and my previous email was defunct, it was just easier to create a new account.

Used to be “Vegas Rugrat”


284 posted on 02/26/2015 5:57:26 PM PST by genesismt
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To: Resettozero
I read your question as asking why we refer to ourselves as the "Roman Catholic Church" rather than the "Roman Christian Church", so I explained where we believe the name "Catholic Church" comes from, which is pretty simply the term "catholic church" or put another way "universal church" that was quite commonly used to refer to the Church in the early period of Christian history.

I also gave examples of other churches and communions that do not have the word "Christian" in their name, where there is no intent to "detach" themselves from Christ in their presentation of themselves to the world, as you wondered whether that was the intent of the Catholic Church in not using the word Christian in their official name.

While on the topic of the official name of the Church, I noted that "Roman Catholic Church" is not the proper name of the Catholic Church, which has several rites including the Roman one:

Although the Diocese of Rome is central to the Catholic Church, this does not mean that the Roman rite, or, as is sometimes said, the Latin rite, is co-terminus with the Church as a whole; that would mean neglecting the Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite or other Oriental rites which are all very much part of the Catholic Church today, as in the past.

I most emphatically did not think that you had never heard of the Catholic Church or the Pope in Rome or the Roman Rite. Quite to the contrary, I would say that many if not most Catholics n the English Speaking world (where this term is quite common) are not aware that "Roman Catholic Church" is not the official name.

Since your question was sincere perhaps you could either disagree with some of the facts I posted in reply or ask for other ones to answer your question, or state it in the form of a proposition that we could discuss.

285 posted on 02/26/2015 6:21:39 PM PST by edwinland
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To: Iscool
"And Catholic is not the same as catholic... "

Could you please explain the difference between the two and how it was relevant during the first centuries of the church, from which time the Catholic Church derives her name?

286 posted on 02/26/2015 6:27:43 PM PST by edwinland
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To: rwa265

I’m sorry for your loss.

Losing a child has got to be one of the worst things a parent could ever go through.

It had to be very difficult on your family.


287 posted on 02/26/2015 7:05:51 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: redleghunter; Iscool; ealgeone; CynicalBear; Gamecock

Interesting how they are the ones to get it banned as a hate site because of stuff on there about Catholicism, but don’t hesitate to use the very site they get banned for use against them, against others.

The hypocrisy is staggering.


288 posted on 02/26/2015 7:10:28 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom; redleghunter; Iscool; ealgeone; CynicalBear

At least the 3rd time in the last 2 weeks.


289 posted on 02/26/2015 7:24:42 PM PST by Gamecock (Joel Osteen is a minister of the Gospel like Colonel Sanders is an Infantry officer.)
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To: edwinland; Resettozero

Your responses look good to me. I really do not see anything disingenuous about them at all.

Peace


290 posted on 02/26/2015 7:53:41 PM PST by rwa265
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To: metmom

Thank you, metmom. I truly appreciate that.

Mom had an experience that helped ease the pain. She was given a sleeping pill, and as she drifted off to sleep, she prayed the 23rd Psalm, the beautiful King James Version. She does not know if she was semi-conscious or was dreaming, but she saw a vision of a woman handing a baby to a figure dressed in white, who then walked into woods and disappeared. The next day, she learned that her son passed at about that time. “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.”

Peace


291 posted on 02/26/2015 8:14:43 PM PST by rwa265
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To: Religion Moderator

Do you ever make this warning to Protestants who say that Catholics are idolaters, pagans, demon-possessed, etc.?


292 posted on 02/26/2015 9:37:19 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Of course. But understand that in order for something to be "making it personal" it must be speaking of another Freeper, personally - not a group.

If you say "Baptists are heretics" that is not "making it personal" but if you say "you are a heretic" that is "making it personal."

Forms of "making it personal" include reading minds, attributing motives and making the thread "about" another Freeper personally.

293 posted on 02/26/2015 9:40:42 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Gamecock

“They worship a church of their own making.”

That’s funny....since that’s what Protestants do. Only the Catholic Church was started by Jesus Christ. Your sects were founded by mere mortals. Especially those of you who don’t belong to a particular denomination yet call yourselves Christians.


294 posted on 02/26/2015 11:37:17 PM PST by Prince of Space (Be Breitbart, baby. LIFB.)
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To: ealgeone

How do you know who can or cannot hear us in Heaven? That’s your opinion, but you cannot presume to know exactly what occurs there.


295 posted on 02/26/2015 11:40:56 PM PST by Prince of Space (Be Breitbart, baby. LIFB.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Someone found #252 offensive in some way...

The CAtholic Church does a REALLY loud job of proclaiming DEAD people to be ALIVE!


No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.

SOMEONE needs to explain away THIS verse about DEAD PEOPLE IN GRAVES!!


1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

296 posted on 02/27/2015 3:06:43 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Arthur McGowan
Limbo. Provided the theory was true.

Rome has THEORIES??

297 posted on 02/27/2015 3:09:02 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Arthur McGowan
Limbo. Provided the theory was true.

Pfft!

How low can you go?

298 posted on 02/27/2015 3:09:24 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Arthur McGowan
Limbo was a theory about what happened to unbaptized babies at death.

Babies?

The question was about the PEOPLE referred to. All baptized people would go to 1) Hell; 2) Heaven; 3) Purgatory, followed by Heaven.

299 posted on 02/27/2015 3:11:07 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Arthur McGowan
No baptized person could go to Limbo because a baptized person in the state of mortal sin would be damned, and a baptized person in the state of grace would eventually enter Heaven.

HMMMmmm...

Looks like the REQUIRMENT for baptism to be NECESSARY for salvation is a bit, shall we say, ineffective.

300 posted on 02/27/2015 3:23:20 AM PST by Elsie
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