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Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation
Catholic Defense ^ | February 25, 2015

Posted on 02/25/2015 11:50:17 AM PST by NYer

Lines from the Lord's Prayer, in various languages.
From the Eucharist Door at the Glory Facade of the Sagrada Família in Barcelona, Spain.

It's Lent in Rome. That means it's time for one of the great Roman traditions: station churches. Each morning, English-speaking pilgrims walk to a different church for Mass. This morning, on the way to St. Anastasia's, I was once again struck by a line in the Our Father: “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” That's a hard thing to pray, It doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Even the Catechism seems shocked by it:

This petition is astonishing. If it consisted only of the first phrase, "And forgive us our trespasses," it might have been included, implicitly, in the first three petitions of the Lord's Prayer, since Christ's sacrifice is "that sins may be forgiven." But, according to the second phrase, our petition will not be heard unless we have first met a strict requirement. Our petition looks to the future, but our response must come first, for the two parts are joined by the single word "as."
Upon arriving at Mass, I discovered that the Gospel for the day was Matthew 6:7-15, in which Christ introduces this prayer. That seemed too serendipitous to simply be a coincidence. Then Archbishop Di Noia, O.P., got up to preach the homily, and it was all about how to understand this particular petition. So here goes: I think that the Lord's Prayer is flatly inconsistent with sola fide, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone. Here's why.

In this line of the Lord's Prayer, Jesus seems to be explicitly conditioning our forgiveness on our forgiving. Indeed, it's hard to read “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” any other way. What's more, after introducing the prayer, Jesus focuses on this line, in particular. Here's how He explains it (Matthew 6:14-15):
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
So to be forgiven, you must forgive. If you do, you'll be forgiven. If you don't, you won't be. It's as simple as that.

So Christ has now told us three times that our being forgiven is conditioned upon our forgiving, using the most explicit of language. How does Luther respond to this? “God forgives freely and without condition, out of pure grace.” And what is Calvin's response? “The forgiveness, which we ask that God would give us, does not depend on the forgiveness which we grant to others.”

Their theology forces them to deny Christ's plain words, since admitting them would concede that we need something more than faith alone: we also need to forgive our neighbors. They've painted themselves into a corner, theologically. To get out of it, they change this part of the Our Father into either a way that we can know that we're saved (Luther's approach: that God “set this up for our confirmation and assurance for a sign alongside of the promise which accords with this prayer”) or a non-binding moral exhortation (Calvin's: “to remind us of the feelings which we ought to cherish towards brethren, when we desire to be reconciled to God”).

Modern Protestants tend to do the same thing with these verses, and countless other passages in which Christ or the New Testament authors teach us about something besides faith that's necessary for salvation. We see this particularly in regards to the Biblical teaching on the saving role of Baptism (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21) and works (Matthew 25:31-46; Romans 2:6-8; James 2). There are three common tactics employed:

  1. Reverse the causality. If a passage says that you must do X in order to be saved, claim that it really means that if you're saved, you'll just naturally do X. Thus, X is important for showing that you're saved, but it doesn't actually do anything, and certainly isn't necessary for salvation (even if the Bible says otherwise: Mark 16:16).
  2. No True Scotsman. If Scripture says that someone believed and then lost their salvation (like Simon the Magician in Acts 8, or the heretics mentioned in 2 Peter 2), say that they must not have ever actually believed (even if the Bible says the opposite: Acts 8:13, 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22).
  3. Spiritualize the passage into oblivion. If the Bible says that Baptism is necessary for salvation, argue that this is just a “spiritual” Baptism that means nothing more than believing. And if you need to get around the need to be “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) spiritualize this, too, to get rid of the need for water. Reduce everything to a symbol, or a metaphor for faith.

In fairness to both the Reformers and to modern Protestants, they want to avoid any notion that we can earn God's forgiveness or our salvation. This doesn't justify denying or distorting Christ's words, but it's a holy impulse. And in fact, it was the theme of Abp. Di Noia's homily this morning. Grace is a gift, and what's more, grace is what enables us to forgive others. This point is key, because it explains why Christ isn't teaching something like Pelagianism.

God freely pours out His graces upon us, which bring about both (a) our forgiveness, and (b) our ability to forgive others. But we can choose to accept that grace and act upon it, or to reject it. And that decision has eternal consequences. Such an understanding is harmonious with Christ's actual words, while avoiding any idea that we possess the power to earn our salvation.

So both Catholics and Protestants reject Pelagianism, but there's a critical difference. Catholics believe that grace enables us to do good works, whereas Protestants tend to believe that grace causes us to do good works. To see why it matters, consider the parable of the unmerciful servant, Matthew 18:21-35. In this parable, we see three things happen:

  1. A debtor is forgiven an enormous debt of ten thousand talents (Mt. 18:25-27). Solely through the grace of the Master (clearly representing God), this man is forgiven his debts (sins). He is in a state of grace.
  2. This debtor refuses to forgive his neighbor of a small debt of 100 denarii (Mt. 18:28-30). The fact that he's been forgiven should enable the debtor to be forgiving: in being forgiven, he's received the equivalent of 60,000,000 denarii, and he's certainly seen a moral model to follow. But he turns away from the model laid out by the Master, and refuses to forgive his neighbor.
  3. This debtor is unforgiven by his Master (Mt. 18:32-35). The kicker comes at the very end: “And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”
Now, consider all of the Protestant work-arounds discussed above. To deny that this debtor was ever really forgiven would be an insult to the Master and in contradiction to the text. To say that, if we're forgiven, we'll just naturally forgive is equally a contradiction: this debtor is forgiven, and doesn't. To treat the need to forgive the other debtor as a non-binding moral exhortation would have been a fatal error. 

This parable gets to the heart of the issue. The Master's forgiveness is freely given, and cannot be earned. But that doesn't mean it's given unconditionally or irrevocably. Quite the contrary: Christ shows us in this parable that it can be repealed, and tells us why: if we refuse to forgive, we will not be forgiven. It turns out, the Lord's Prayer actually means what it says.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: bumpusadsummum; calvin; catholic; faithalone; forgiveness; forgivingtrespasses; luther; ourfather; paternoster; prayer; solafide; thelordsprayer; theourfather
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To: CynicalBear
Catholics think that if we “just read” we would somehow capitulate

You often start your comments by saying "Catholics think that ..." followed by things (such as the above) that we do not think. I do not think that "if [you] “just read” [you] would somehow capitulate".

No, I implied that if you read it and think about it then you might know what actually follows the words "Catholics think that ...

261 posted on 02/26/2015 1:34:52 PM PST by edwinland
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To: Elsie

No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.


262 posted on 02/26/2015 1:45:59 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: edwinland

So you didn’t think that “will help you understand in a more practical, human way the Catholic perspective” ey? Practical human way? You want a “practical human way”. I’ll take the way of the Holy Spirit understanding of God’s way thank you very much.


263 posted on 02/26/2015 1:51:53 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Resettozero
Has anyone in the RCC ever said why your church is not call the Roman Christian Church? Why the undying attachment to the word “Catholic” and detachment from the word “Christ-ian” in how you identify your church to the world?

By RCC do you mean the 'Roman Catholic Church'? The term 'Roman Catholic Church' is not the proper name of the Catholic Church and it is not used by the Church herself. The proper name of the Catholic Church is simply the "Catholic Church".

To answer your question, the term "The Catholic Church" was adopted sometime in the First Century A.D.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "the catholic church" can be found in Saint Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Christians in Smyrna in approximately AD 110.

It can also be found in the Nicene Creed which refers to the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church." As the Creed was formalized over a millenium before the reformation, the name was not attempting to address divisions which arose much later among the Churches.

Incidentally, other Christian churches have names such as "The United Methodist Church", "The Church of England" and there's also the Southern Baptist Convention. I don't think in any of these cases they are "detaching" themselves from the word Christian in how they identify themselves to the world.

264 posted on 02/26/2015 2:03:15 PM PST by edwinland
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To: daniel1212

Thanks Daniel. I had a real problem with that post. Thanks for your efforts.


265 posted on 02/26/2015 2:09:39 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: edwinland
The term 'Roman Catholic Church' is not the proper name of the Catholic Church and it is not used by the Church herself.

I agree with you, but weirdly the vatican website has about 700 hits for the term "roman catholic church"... MOST of those hits seem to come from the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Kasper's old stomping grounds.

266 posted on 02/26/2015 2:11:23 PM PST by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: redleghunter
LOL post #226 was removed because Arthur used “the name that shall not be named.”

They are fascinated with that guy...

267 posted on 02/26/2015 2:22:05 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Elsie

Limbo. Provided the theory was true.

Limbo was a theory about what happened to unbaptized babies at death. The difficulty the theory attempted to resolve was that, not having committed any personal sin, they could not be damned, yet, being unbaptized, they could not enjoy the Beatific Vision.

No baptized person could go to Limbo because a baptized person in the state of mortal sin would be damned, and a baptized person in the state of grace would eventually enter Heaven.


268 posted on 02/26/2015 2:23:48 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Iscool
They are fascinated with that guy...

That's because he seems to be the source material for much of what FRanti-Catholics believe about the Church. I find it endlessly fascinating that one can says the same things but not credit the original source.

269 posted on 02/26/2015 2:26:27 PM PST by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.

No one who thinks God has a mother is a Christian...

270 posted on 02/26/2015 2:26:46 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Grateful2God
God bless you, no joke! : ) (No cool emojis either, darn it!)

Thanks again. 😄 I am not an expert computer savy person. I can only put those little things on here, using my IPhone 5. I can't do it using my Mac. I don't know why there is a difference.

271 posted on 02/26/2015 2:27:37 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Arthur McGowan; Elsie
>>No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.<<

Paul is really going to be disappointed as will millions of others.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

272 posted on 02/26/2015 2:29:00 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: edwinland
To answer your question, the term "The Catholic Church" was adopted sometime in the First Century A.D.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "the catholic church" can be found in Saint Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Christians in Smyrna in approximately AD 110.

You own a used car lot as well??? Why do you guys always refer to Ignatius' forged writings??? And Catholic is not the same as catholic...

273 posted on 02/26/2015 2:29:52 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
when it comes to Mary, you gratuitously make the same old, same old accusation: Namely, that we Catholics secretly are taught, behind closed doors and drawn curtains, to worship Mary. The thousands of textbooks, catechisms, conciliar declarations, papal declarations, saying that Catholics DO NOT worship Mary have all been published in an attempt to deceive Protestants. SECRETLY, Catholics are taught the OPPOSITE of what is in ALL Catholic catechisms, etc.

No one has ever made that claim...You're pretty quick and loose with the false accusations...Part of the job???

No doubt Catholics worship Mary out of ignorance...Your leaders tell you it isn't worship while it clearly is...Praying TO Mary is worship...

274 posted on 02/26/2015 2:37:58 PM PST by Iscool
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To: CynicalBear
>>They worship a church of their own making.<<

It's no different then the Mormons or JWs.

There are some cults here, that you could to that list.

275 posted on 02/26/2015 3:08:55 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Discuss the issues do not make it personal.


276 posted on 02/26/2015 3:16:35 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: edwinland
To answer your question...

Then you proceed not to.

You offered me and other FReepers a bunch of words posted as if to a child who has never previously heard of the Catholic Church (Roman rite) headed by a pope in the Vatican (Rome) Italy or aware of the other RCC versions of church history.

Disingenuous response and not an acceptable answer to the sincere question asked.
277 posted on 02/26/2015 3:29:26 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: CynicalBear
it’s unscriptural paganism and the double speak is astounding.

Gloom, despair and agony on me. Oh, never mind. You already know. 😄

278 posted on 02/26/2015 3:29:36 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Iscool

Fascinated, is not the word I would use. Obsessed is more like it.


279 posted on 02/26/2015 3:33:42 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Legatus
That's because he seems to be the source material for much of what FRanti-Catholics believe about the Church. I find it endlessly fascinating that one can says the same things but not credit the original source.

So you're an expert on the one who can't be named as well...Are you another priest???

The 'source' is not from this generation...The source is the history of the Catholic church and the words of God, the scriptures...In fact, for years Christians has been posting the sources of their information about the Catholic religion...Much of it comes from the Catholic religion...

280 posted on 02/26/2015 3:36:12 PM PST by Iscool
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