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NRA officials split with Trump on wisdom of armed club-goers
CNN ^ | June 19, 2016 | Tom LoBianco, CNN

Posted on 06/19/2016 8:52:48 PM PDT by Innovative

Top National Rifle Association officials split Sunday with Donald Trump's position that armed club-goers are a good idea.

"I don't think you should have firearms where people are drinking," said Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's chief executive officer said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "But I will tell you this. Everybody, every American starts to have -- needs to start having a security plan. We need to be able to protect ourselves, because they're coming. And they're going for vulnerable spots, and this country needs to realize it."

NRA lobbyist Chris Cox told ABC's "This Week": "No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms. That defies commonsense. It also defies the law. It's not what we're talking about here."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida; US: New York; US: Wisconsin; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2016election; 2ndamendment; banglist; bars; cnn; demagogicparty; drugaddicts; drunks; election2016; guncontrol; guns; homosexualsbars; memebuilding; newyork; nra; orlandoterrorattack; partisanmediashill; partisanmediashills; paulnehlen; paulryan; secondamendment; tomlobianco; trump; trumpnra; wisconsin
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To: proust

From CNN site:

LaPierre later tweeted: “I want to clarify my comment: if you’re going to carry, don’t drink. OK to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol.”


101 posted on 06/20/2016 7:55:49 AM PDT by polymuser (Enough is enough!)
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To: Paladin2

The double barrel shotgun behind the bar was always a good idea.


102 posted on 06/20/2016 7:57:32 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a Momma deuce)
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To: Innovative

Train ONE person in every ‘gun free zone’... a bartender - a bar manager...

It doesn’t have to be everyone and it doesn’t have to be people who are drinking. But it has to be ‘enough’ that a killer doesn’t feel safe going in for a slaughter.

Same with schools, colleges etc. - - a couple of people should be armed and trained.


103 posted on 06/20/2016 8:33:44 AM PDT by GOPJ (When a Muslim terrorist shoots up a gay bar, itÂ’s not gun violence.ItÂ’s Islamic terrorism.Greenfie)
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To: bruoz

Aha— So the club owner could have been armed at the bar which is her place of business. I would imagine that by extension she can transfer her right to carry to her guard employees and her other employees(?). That sounds at least to me like a more commonsense situation in florida...

So, it was her choice for the bar guards to be unarmed. Hmm. She almost sounds like a typical liberal, someone who actually drank the koolaid that other liberals served about how peaceful the world would be with “sensible” gun control (ie “no guns”)? Apparently she decided to implement her own private “sensible” gun control on her property, but it did no good because folks can always violate her no gun rule somehow. How many florida bar owners are like her, i wonder. And i wonder how she can talk about reopening if she is not going to change her no gun bar guard rule. Who would feel safe in her bar? Would it even be feasible to re-open the bar with her as owner, given the casualty count and the failure of her policy to provide security for her patrons? (I recall reading about her intent to re-open, and of course everyone needs some time to grieve for the victims, but still i wonder if anyone has been able to ask her hard questions such as these).

Anyway thanks, though still somewhat murky on some implementation details and implications...


104 posted on 06/20/2016 9:13:16 AM PDT by SteveH
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To: All

Aha. Thanks for response.

I am not on any crusade against bar owners in general. I am mainly trying to understand all the legal details and implications.

However, it seems to me that the law puts bar owners in a moral squeeze. Patrons are required to be unarmed by law. From my point of view, this automatically places patrons at some risk. It is difficult for me to contemplate that the liability exposure can be legislatively made to vanish by transferring responsibility for a flawed security loophole to the state, who cannot be sued. That just seems like flawed law.

I feel a need to step back and consider an analogy to schools. How many public schools are armed these days? In California, i get the impression that policy varies from city to city— in particular, some districts have police presence at some or all school sites, and at least where they do, that so far, this seems to work well. Of course, bars cannot simply have police on site— there are just not enough police and there is also the matter of pay. But regardless of details, a form of “protection vacuum” seems obvious for bars, as it imaginably would have been to those california cities who now have school site police presence.

Another analogy would be to some archetypal Wild West saloon with the bartender and his shotgun always kept loaded and ready behind the bar, at least in movies. Or, apparently, some town sheriffs implemented their own gun control by requiring cowboys to turn in their guns when they rode into town, returning them when they rode back out, and that cowboys meekly acquiesced (this seems more mythical than real to me, but whatever).

Anyway so florida legislatively created a protection vacuum without filling the vacuum? The implications still seem murky to me. I am getting an impression that Florida ran itself up a tree so to speak with its own legislation in this corner case situation...


105 posted on 06/20/2016 9:42:00 AM PDT by SteveH
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To: SteveH
"I would imagine that by extension she can transfer her right to carry to her guard employees and her other employees(?)."

That would be correct. She would however be liable for their actions as well as her own. Most clubs here that have issues hire outside security. BTW the Orlando shooter had a Florida G license (armed security)which meant he had to annually re-qualify with his 9mm.

106 posted on 06/20/2016 9:51:18 AM PDT by bruoz
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To: polymuser

How about OK to carry in bars that serve fish and chips?

(Still somewhat murky to me...)


107 posted on 06/20/2016 9:52:17 AM PDT by SteveH
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To: bruoz

Aha thanks.

And for liability, I would anticipate that all bar owners or at least all rational bar owners would use a corporate shield. Note— I am not a bar owner (or lawyer) so I am just talking through my hat here...


108 posted on 06/20/2016 9:54:52 AM PDT by SteveH
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To: SteveH
All public schools in Hillsborough County, Florida have an armed SRO(school resource officer) during school hours.
109 posted on 06/20/2016 9:56:53 AM PDT by bruoz
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To: Mr Rogers
Well, if you allow guns in places where people are drinking and taking drugs, you’ll have a lot of people killed by drunks. And probably a lot of innocent people outside on the street passing by. Drunk people should not have guns.

If people are taking drugs, they're already breaking the law.

And they probably already have guns both to protect their money and drugs.

The wonder is not that they would shoot someone while in that state, but rather that they are so restrained while in that state!

I've been armed, and I've been drunk, but I've NEVER shot someone or even brandished during those two intersecting times.

110 posted on 06/20/2016 10:05:09 AM PDT by Alas Babylon! (Fully accept and CELEBRATE gayness, or you are a homosexual mass murderer supporter.)
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To: SteveH

Maybe those that serve fish and clips?


111 posted on 06/20/2016 10:10:57 AM PDT by polymuser (Enough is enough!)
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To: Innovative

I side with Trump on this one. I understand why the NRA takes their position but there are bars I wouldn’t go into unarmed.


112 posted on 06/20/2016 10:12:14 AM PDT by RedWulf (End Free trade.)
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To: SteveH
There are several types of liquor licenses in Florida. A restaurant that receives more than half its revenue from food sales can also serve alcohol. A CWP holder cannot enter that part of the premises (if any) that only serves alcohol. A club or bar that makes more than half its income from alcohol sales is entirely off limits to permit holders. You can carry in a “Package store” because by law they can't serve on the premises.
113 posted on 06/20/2016 10:13:50 AM PDT by bruoz
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To: Buttons12
It is strange, but somewhat less so, given the late hour and degrees of intoxication and fatigue. Americans outside, armed to the teeth, cold sober, hesitating 3 hours, is stranger by far.

That makes a lot of sense.

114 posted on 06/20/2016 3:29:51 PM PDT by proud American in Canada (God bless the United States of America)
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