Posted on 05/28/2016 1:07:36 PM PDT by knarf
Long forgotten, private color film of the actual attack on Pearl Harbor
PFL
I sent this link to my friend, though I’m not sure I have a good email for her; I told her when I saw it I thought of her dad. I said at the top, “No apologies, Japan.” May we not forget that day.
Any thoughts on how the war would have preceded had the carrier fleet been in Pearl Harbor and the japs had sunk them all?
After thinking about it for a few minutes, in the end it probably would have meant Tokyo getting nuked in late 1945 or early 46.
My Dad survived the D-Day landings and the long slog across Europe to the German border and beyond. He would only speak of two things of all his experiences. One was a glimpse of what he saw on D-Day. The other was what he called the happiest day of his life up to then: news of the bombs falling on Japan, because he knew he would be going home and not have to survive another invasion.
Maybe, but any kind of extended conflict with the US on the defensive all the time would have drawn a lot of resources away from the bomb development effort. And if the extra time allowed Heisenberg to remedy his error on the graphite purity problem, the Germans could have made it further down the path to developing their own bomb (either that or replace the heavy water supply from Vemork with a more secure production source).
I was surprised at the account of the 12 year-old Japanese girl. Her teacher came in, said “We have started a war with the English and America.” We all started cheering and clapping.”
Sounds like the warrior culture was very strong at the time - plus I imagine the propaganda that the white devils were coming to eat all the little children.
I have read accounts of WWI where it was stated that almost all of the belligerent countries of Europe cheered its outbreak. Those who exalted at the end did so more for gratitude that it was ended and in their favor (for a time).
wow...thanks for sharing
chimera: "...we'd have lost Midway for sure if the IJN continued on their plans to take it.
Then HI would be open for invasion if they wanted to go that far, which I'm guessing they would if we did not sue for peace before that..."
No, people misunderstand the situation...
First of all, we need to remember that of the eight old battle-wagons "sunk" at Pearl Harbor, only two were total losses, and two were soon repaired, back in the fight in time for the Battle of Midway, June 1942.
The other four rejoined the fleet in following months & years.
So let us imagine that one, or both, of the two carriers based at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 was caught in port and also "sunk".
How long would it have taken to repair & return them to the fight?
Well, obviously there's no way to say for sure, but perhaps on average we might suppose one of them could be ready for the Battle of Midway in June 1942.
Now also remember than on December 7, 1942 the US had seven fleet-carriers and one escort-carrier: Lexington & Enterprise at Pearl, Saratoga in San Diego, Yorktown, Hornet, Wasp, Ranger & Long Island in the Atlantic.
All but Ranger & Long Island were soon transferred to the Pacific, giving us six there.
Of them four were soon sunk -- Lexington (May '42), Yorktown (June '42), Wasp (September '42) & Hornet (October '42).
(Btw, CV-1, the obsolescent Langley, was also sunk by Japanese dive bombers in early 1942, but is not usually included in counts of early war carriers.)
So, suppose on net, one carrier was sunk at Pearl Harbor and not ready for Midway, let's say the Lexington -- what would have happened?
Well, Lexington was already sunk by Midway, so would not have effected the three US carriers available for that battle.
Yes, it may have changed the results of Corral Sea, or may have simply moved up the date for Wasp's arrival in the Pacific from June 1942 to say, March, along with Hornet.
Alternatively, Ranger or Long Island might be considered for Pacific duty.
Point is: while US naval resources were severely limited throughout 1942, there were still reserves to be called on, if needed.
"on December 7, 1942" = December 7, 1941!
Japan was totally sold out on the emperor was a god, so their mentality was as twisted as ISIS ... and the behavior and actions of the Japanese warriors evidenced that exact insanity
Nukes were the only resort
Great - thank you. I should have thought of looking there.
If the Japs had gotten the bomb first, would they have hesitated to use it on an American city?
Obviously not.
The Japs should be apologizing to the USA, and thanking us for the humane way their country was treated after the surrender.
And Obama should shut his ******* mouth.
Saratoga arrived at Pearl on December 15, 1941, was damaged in January, repaired but sent for upgrade at Bremerton, Washington.
She missed returning to Pearl in time for Midway by a few days, but doubtless could have been there sooner, if the need were more urgent.
chimera: "Would Halsey have risked going up against Yamamoto with only two carriers?"
Of course, Halsey would have used whatever he had available, but that could have included other carriers had they been more desperately needed -- Saratoga & Wasp were readily available sooner.
Also, Ranger & Long Island could have been considered for Pacific duty under more desperate circumstances.
By the way, we should well remember that Midway was a very close fought battle, easily, easily could have gone the other way absent what I consider Divine intervention (aka: luck).
Indeed, it's as "luck" as anything that US losses on December 7 were so relatively light, and successes in 1942 so amazing.
chimera: "Losing one or two carriers at Pearl Harbor might have made it an even dicer situation, more so than it already was."
Agreed.
Thank you.
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