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Raisin' [a Few Issues for the Purpose of Honestly Vetting Herman] Cain!
The American Thinker ^ | October 16, 2011 | Joseph Ashby

Posted on 10/16/2011 2:32:45 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

"I'm the only problem-solver in the group," Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain told Mike Huckabee in an August Fox News appearance. Well, many candidates bill themselves as problem-solvers. In fact, if we asked any candidate running for any office in the entire country, practically every one would likely define him- or herself as able to solve problems. Yet we know that politicians, as a rule, create and worsen problems rather than fix them.

.....Overconfidence turns the hopeful campaign pronouncements of otherwise successful people into dismal policy. In the end, Americans usually end up with more laws, less freedom, and no money.

The question is what type of problem-solver Cain will be as president......

Examining Herman Cain's record leaves serious questions about which type of problem-solver he is. In a column published October 20, 2008, Cain blamed conservatives' "economic illiteracy" for their opposition to the freshly passed Trouble Assets Relief Program.

"Wake up people!" admonished Cain with typical candor. "Owning a part of the major banks in America is not a bad thing. We could make a profit while solving a problem." Cain goes on to defend Treasury's decision to post-legislatively change TARP to buy preferred stock in banks rather than toxic mortgages. "You got a problem with that?" asks Cain. Apparently he didn't.

Cain reassures "free market purists" that the Treasury's stock purchase is "not nationalization because that would require government to own at least 51% of the entity for an indefinite period of time." (This is a relief, because some of us thought that government would use this foot in the door to force mergers, control salaries, and set lending rules. Oh, wait...)...

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: economy; freemarket; gopprimary; nationalbooktour; vetting
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; All

Interesting post & thread. Thanks to all posters.


101 posted on 10/16/2011 5:39:40 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: normy

Cain would not try it without GOP majorities in both houses of Congress, to avoid perverting the plan. The 9% is “on top of” a much smaller income tax. The old, large income tax appears right now in the prices of goods and services.


102 posted on 10/16/2011 5:41:22 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Principled

“Damn straight. That’s the reason the rate can be lower. Everyone pays it. Not just the “top 53%” “

But SS and savings were already taxed once, 999 will tax it again. That wont sell.


103 posted on 10/16/2011 5:42:00 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Oh, the plan is garage sales?

NUTS Herman Cain!

How does this stimulate the economy are we to make due with 1950’s cars like Cuba?

Yeah buddy this guy is an economic genius.

Sure makes more sense that getting Gov out of the way of energy costs and regulation


104 posted on 10/16/2011 5:42:27 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Darkwolf377

The difference between the candidates can be boiled down simply. Perry supports the current 35-35-0 system in which politicians get to dole out tax breaks to ease the corporate rate (highest in the world). Perry wants to create jobs Texas-style in energy especially, dialing back EPA regulations. Cain is fundamentally different with his flat taxes. His way of creating jobs is to not confiscate income from job-creators or corporate profits. But some people have a legitimate beef with sales taxes by the Feds, it opens up a door they don’t want opened.


105 posted on 10/16/2011 5:44:00 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: Dusty Road

Hows that 401K working for ya?

Dont forget, you get to pay taxes on that and then Hermans gonna tax it again!


106 posted on 10/16/2011 5:44:56 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: palmer

Thank you very much. You’ve put that more succinctly than all the articles I’ve read so far.

The Fed sales tax is troubling, but we’re definitely at a crossroads where we have to take some risks—leaving things as they are is a risk, too.


107 posted on 10/16/2011 5:46:36 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Obama: The stupid person`s idea of a smart person.)
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To: Principled

Lets call on the “Super Committee” for a decision.


108 posted on 10/16/2011 5:47:24 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Erik Latranyi

I vote for a reasonable flat tax with very few deductions.

NO national sales tax!


109 posted on 10/16/2011 5:47:34 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
I understand his idea, it just doesn't take into account Washington. The original income tax was at 1% wasn't it?

It looks to me like he 9-9-9 is never going to happen without a Republican majority in both Houses, so that is a big if, and what if We get a Dem majority in 10 years?

We would need a Constitutional Amendment to keep the tax plan at 9-9-9. It will never happen because we can't even get a balanced budget amendment passed.

So Cain's tax plan is nothing at all, never will pass and can only be torn down for it's faults. So we go on to his border plan, 2000 miles of electrified fencing with enough voltage to kill anyone who touches it. How far is that gonna go in a general election?

110 posted on 10/16/2011 5:47:51 AM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
maintain an equal balanced playing field for the citizens and for our society

Sounds like equality of opportunity. Anybody should have the opportunity to get wealthy and not have that wealth taken from them Obama style. The 9-9-9 plan simply does that, it does not take 35% of high earner's income and it does not take 35% of corporate profits. Those two money sources are the source of most new (lasting) jobs.

111 posted on 10/16/2011 5:47:56 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: mylife

Again, this is only if you are dead set on going Galt. The average Joe — in retirement or not — will see retail goods get cheaper by 9% or more, because overhead for the businesses that manufacture and vend them just went down by 15-22%.

Maybe there could be a transition plan for funds saved pre-999 (non IRA/401(k)), but this is benign even as is.


112 posted on 10/16/2011 5:49:46 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: mylife

Cain will add a federal sales tax and although I am not particularly happy with that, the economy will undoubtedly boom as we shift from consumption to production.


113 posted on 10/16/2011 5:49:53 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: palmer
I doubt Perry is for the 35-35-0 and unless you have a link you shouldn't make those claims. Perry has said before to cut the corporate tax. I assume making Bush's tax cuts permanent and getting a balanced budget amendment passed is on his agenda too. I know he publicly backed Congress's Cut,Cap and Balance plan.
114 posted on 10/16/2011 5:51:43 AM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: normy
This is about winning elections too ya know.

If we require class warfare to win elections (or pandering to class warfare) then we have lost. Taxes on the rich are nothing but a ball and chain on the economy, our entrepreneurial class is strong enough to overcome them for now, but that won't last forever.

115 posted on 10/16/2011 5:53:19 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: normy

Where does it say in his plan theat presciption drug’s and food will be taxed? Most states have those as tax exempt.


116 posted on 10/16/2011 5:54:43 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Prove it.


117 posted on 10/16/2011 5:55:16 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Erik Latranyi

I’d like to see a flat rate, paid by everyone... with not exemptions.

That, and the corporate income tax rate ended, with the legal ‘person’ that a corporation ‘is’ paying the standard flat-rate personal income tax rate.

I figure it ought to be around 16-18%.


118 posted on 10/16/2011 5:57:33 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: normy

Where is Perry’s plan? I would like a link to what Perry thinks about our nominal corporate tax rate, the highest in the developed world. About all it does is allow politicians to dole out breaks to make it more competitive with the rest of the word (although still very high). Taxes on corporate profits take away from R&D and expansion (except where the benevolent Congress doles out breaks for those items).


119 posted on 10/16/2011 5:58:11 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: palmer

Who is going to consume with an additional %9 tax?

The economy is stagnant now.


120 posted on 10/16/2011 5:58:11 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

If you are a business producing a retailed product and your income tax went down from 35% to 9%, and you got competition, you saying that prices won’t dive?


121 posted on 10/16/2011 5:58:56 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: palmer
Yeas but it's still about winning elections. If you don't win elections you can't do the work needed. The 9-9-9 plan is dead in the water.

I understand it, I understand the allure of it and I also understand the reality of how Washington gets a hold of these things.

I read in the Washington Post on line that there has been a bit of back tracking on the 9% income tax on poverty level citizens. I want another source but my gut told me that was coming anyway. The next perversion of it will be exemption on those over 65. We already have an exemption for economic empowerment zones which sounds like liberal speak for bad neighborhoods.

Pretty soon you wont even recognize it because it's a political loser.

122 posted on 10/16/2011 5:59:30 AM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: palmer

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/302089-1


123 posted on 10/16/2011 5:59:48 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

What on earth do you mean by, “My Taxes are already paid free and clear, That is the way I like things.”

Are you referring to IRS withholding from your paycheck? Are you arguing for the status quo? How are your taxes “already paid free and clear”??


124 posted on 10/16/2011 5:59:52 AM PDT by Jedidah
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To: mylife

They will consume goods that have become cheaper.


125 posted on 10/16/2011 5:59:58 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: HiTech RedNeck

>> They do not realize that due to elimination of hidden taxes, prices would ease under the Cain plan

The plan is revenue neutral; net taxes will NOT be decreasing. They’ll merely be shifted around (adding in another huge entirely new revenue stream for Congress to play with).

Across the board price decreases are fantasy math, similar to the Congressional fantasy of promising spending cuts later if you give in to tax increases now.


126 posted on 10/16/2011 6:00:14 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: mylife

Consumption has made our economy stagnant. We have been borrowing to consume and now that has come to an end. The solution is to save and produce more.


127 posted on 10/16/2011 6:00:22 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: Nervous Tick
Across the board price decreases are fantasy math

The only way to justify that statement is to ignore the free market which inevitably lowers prices through competition.

128 posted on 10/16/2011 6:01:45 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: Dusty Road; normy
“Where does it say in his plan theat presciption drug’s and food will be taxed? Most states have those as tax exempt.”

Where does it say they wouldn't be taxed? If they weren’t to be taxed he would have put that in his ‘well thought out plan’. He took the time to put in the ghetto tax breaks because that was important to him.

Do you really think tax a federal sales tax plan would tax different states on some things but not others?

Some states tax used items too.

129 posted on 10/16/2011 6:02:02 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Dusty Road
I don't have a link but it's common knowledge. I will search for 1. I know the Fair Tax, which Cain says this is a precursor to, taxes everything.
130 posted on 10/16/2011 6:04:00 AM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: mylife

Thanks for the link, I am watching it now, but would still like a writeup.


131 posted on 10/16/2011 6:04:19 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: Jedidah

I am speaking of savings. Monies that you have already been taxed on, and now this butthead wants
to tax me again at %9 and tell me its a great new beginning?


132 posted on 10/16/2011 6:04:46 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Nervous Tick

The Laffer curve will come into play. 35% is probably well to the right of the Laffer peak. This 27% will open up doors for economic development.


133 posted on 10/16/2011 6:05:15 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: mylife

No its a consumption tax, dont spend anything and you dont pay it. What part of lower overall tax dont you understand


134 posted on 10/16/2011 6:05:19 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: mylife

If retailers’ tax overheads go down, competition will force prices down. Result in purchasing power is better than the status quo.


135 posted on 10/16/2011 6:07:42 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: HiTech RedNeck
I'd only support the 9-9-9 plan if the preexisting taxes it is supposed to replace are repealed *BEFORE* the plan is put into effect.

And even then, I'm leery of authorizing the federal government to enact a sales tax. For that is a new tax... and who knows what the next party in power will do to it.

It's best not to give the authority to the government at all.

136 posted on 10/16/2011 6:07:44 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: driftdiver

“No its a consumption tax, dont spend anything and you dont pay it.”

Great! No food, elec, heat, Rx, etc etc. Sign me up./sarc.


137 posted on 10/16/2011 6:08:27 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: gogogodzilla

That’s the idea. The bill that establishes the new tax, will also repeal the old.


138 posted on 10/16/2011 6:08:56 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Beagle8U

You’re paying more than 9% in hidden taxes for these things now.


139 posted on 10/16/2011 6:09:44 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: palmer
Thanks for the link, I am watching it now, but would still like a writeup

Sections: [ Policy Recommendations with each section]

Energizing American Jobs and Security

Our Conservative Philosophy
ENERGIZING AMERICA

The Failed Current Approach
BARACK OBAMA’S INCOHERENT ENERGY POLICY

Our Approach
AN ALL-AMERICAN ENERGY POLICY

American Energy, American Jobs
DEVELOPING AMERICA’S DOMESTIC RESOURCES IN THE GULF

American Energy, American Jobs
PENNSYLVANIA’S MARCELLUS SHALE

Maintaining Reliable and Affordable Energy
POWERING AMERICA’S ENGINES OF COMMERCE

Renewable Energy
THE VIRGINIA CASE STUDY

Maintaining Reliable and Affordable Energy
EPA REFORM

Energizing America: Jobs and Security
A NEW PRESIDENT, A RENEWED AMERICA

140 posted on 10/16/2011 6:10:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: mylife

FRiend, it’s fairly apparent that you aren’t vetting candidates at all but rather ranting and spreading misconceptions.

Have you really been up all night bashing Cain? Are you on the Perry payroll or just disturbed?

A more polite and reasoned approach might help you make a point. Calling a good man a “butthead” just makes you sound like a jerk.


141 posted on 10/16/2011 6:10:54 AM PDT by Jedidah
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To: mylife

Perry: “I will [eventually] tackle tax reform” HIs first 100 day plan seems to be all about energy. That’s great and necessary, but not sufficient. Again, is there a writeup? I am still listening, but there is lots of rhetoric about energy, but not much more than that.


142 posted on 10/16/2011 6:10:54 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: Dusty Road

I agree. I would think a new President would cut taxes.


143 posted on 10/16/2011 6:11:42 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Those ‘hidden taxes’ will wind up a hidden savings too. We will never see them.
144 posted on 10/16/2011 6:13:19 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: mylife

“...sales tax (is a tax on) money already taxed...”
-
As it is now in the states with a state income tax and a state sales tax.

The 9 9 9 concept spreads the tax base to capture a larger pool of taxpayers in a more even and more fair manner.

Everyone then has a stake in the country; w/ no free-riders.


145 posted on 10/16/2011 6:13:22 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: Dusty Road

That’s a pretty piss-poor attitude. An ‘oh, this sap’s an idiot with money, so let’s tax him more’ mindset is, well, revolting.

How about we tax people that believe that cr@p at 150%, leaving you in the hole every year?

Is that the right thing to do? All that does is flip your attitude, leaving the concept turned on it’s head. But leaving the basic concept.


146 posted on 10/16/2011 6:13:39 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: normy

>> Why can we not vet this guy?

Because he’s not Rick Perry! Didn’t you read the memo?

Like Palin, Cain is soooo obviously Genuine Conservative(tm) that he **requires no vetting**.

If you believe in wasting time vetting Cain why don’t you go over to DU where you belong?

:-)


147 posted on 10/16/2011 6:14:15 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Thanks. Energy is very important and his plan for energy is good (I absolutely despise the global warmists who want to shut down energy). Talking to the steel workers is appropriate since steel requires tons of energy.

But I would still like to know what he is going to do for the rest of the economy. Is there a plan to lower corporate taxes? Ours are the highest in the world by nominal rate. The only reason they are not the very highest is that the politicians get to dole out breaks (e.g for R&D) in exchange for campaign contributions. We need to get rid of that problem.

148 posted on 10/16/2011 6:14:27 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: driftdiver

The part about if I use the money I already paid tax on I get Taxed again at a %9 rate.


149 posted on 10/16/2011 6:15:19 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: palmer
......"What I am proposing today is the first part of an economic growth package that will rebuild the engine of American prosperity.

The plan I present this morning, Energizing American Jobs and Security, will kick-start economic growth and create 1.2 million jobs.

It can be implemented quicker and free of Washington gridlock because it doesn’t require congressional action. Through a series of executive orders, and other executive actions, we will begin the process of creating jobs soon after the inauguration of a new president.

There is, of course, an important role for Congress to play. And in a matter of days I will offer to the American people a broader package of economic reforms that I will take to Congress when I am elected President. My complete economic growth package will tackle tax reform, entitlement reform and real spending reductions in order to address our growing debt crisis.

But today I offer a plan that will create more than a million good, American jobs across every sector of the economy and enhance our national security, and the best news is it can be set in motion in my first 100 days.

My plan is based on this simple premise: Make what Americans buy, buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world."....Speech

150 posted on 10/16/2011 6:17:06 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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