Posted on 10/30/2008 6:37:54 PM PDT by george76
An Israeli archaeologist has discovered what he says is the earliest-known Hebrew text, found on a shard of pottery that dates to the time of King David from the Old Testament, about 3,000 years ago.
Professor Yosef Garfinkel of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem says the inscribed pottery shard -- known as an ostracon -- was found during excavations of a fortress from the 10th century BC.
Carbon dating of the ostracon, along with pottery analysis, dates the inscription to time of King David, about a millennium earlier than the famous Dead Sea Scrolls, the university said.
The shard contains five lines of text divided by black lines and measures 15 by 15 centimeters, or about 6 inches square.
Archaeologists have yet to decipher the text, but initial interpretation indicates it formed part of a letter and contains the roots of the words "judge," "slave," and "king,"
"The chronology and geography of Khirbet Qeiyafa create a unique meeting point between the mythology, history, historiography and archaeology of King David," he said.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are the earliest-known copies of the Bible, some dating back about 2,000 years.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
the Elah Fortress in Khirbet Qeiyafa...
Yeah ... five lines of text in which a mom asks her son why he never visits anymore .... and why he likes the red tie better than the yellow one ....
Wow.. any photos?
Say what you will, but those old Hebrews sure could write.
“...and contains the roots of the words “judge,”...”
We’ve discovered the root of “So sue me”...
Aw sheesh... assemply instructions were on the inside....
Anything on it about Creation, only about 3,450 years earlier?
When I read that I immediately thought of our current situation. Hope it wasn't a prediction of judges making us slaves of King Obama, lol.
I wonder if the word for judge is related to the judges who held executive power in Israel prior to David’s predecessor Saul, or to a judicial offficer.
Once again, the IQ of the media drops about 30 points when tasked to write on anything pertaining to religion.
To link this pottery to the reign of King David is pure speculation, since no pottery or other cultural strata linked to any Hebrew king prior to Omri has been established. The whole issue of Bible chronology is probably the most hotly debated question in archaeology. All one can reliably say is that the pottery seems to date to c. 1000 BC, which is around the time of the currently dominant chronology extrapolated from Biblical records puts the reign of kings Saul, David and Solomon.
But it got people to click on the link, so, mission accomplished.
More here with picture of the location...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/world/middleeast/30david.html?em
After 3,000 years and the most advanced society in history - I think we should be able to read the damn things. Is there anything in that part of the world ever been easy?
Thanks, George. Interesting.
Perhaps causing thread drift, but, will it take 3,000 years to find a certain birth certificate?
The site is not completely unearthed, and it has been established to BE at the time of David.
Check my previous post for more info.
I am curious where this notion of a 6 thousand year old Earth comes from or is derived from. Can you explain?
The translated text is:
One Pastrami on Pumpernickel, hold the Mustard.
From that site...
“What he has found so far has impressed many. Two burned olive pits found at the site have been tested for carbon-14 at Oxford University and were found to date from between 1050 and 970 B.C., exactly when most chronologies place David as king. Two more pits are still to be tested.”
The archaeological site of Khirbet Qeiyafa is located on the hills that border the Elah Valley on the north. This is a key strategic location in the biblical kingdom of Judah, in the main road from Philistia and the Coastal Plain to Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Hebron in the hill country. In this area one of the world’s most famous battles took place, the battle between David and Goliath.
Khirbet Qeiyafa is a forgotten Biblical site. This is most surprising in view of its massive fortifications of megalithic stones which still stand to a height of 2-3 m, and its strategic geopolitical location.
I’m not the best person to explain it (I only mock it), but the way I understand it, the 6,000+ number comes from a literal reading of the Bible, and using its stories of generations of Jews from Adam on to calculate the passage of time from Creation to Christ’s age.
The shard said “Drink your Ovaltine”
Mel Brooks - History of the World - The Prelude.
Um, no.
The site has been established by radiocarbon to date plus or minus 50 years of the date the currently dominant chronology assigns to David; the pottery shard was found in a fill at the site, establishing its own date as presumably older, but by an unknown amount.
Calling the site Davidic begs the central question of the reliability of the current chronology.
Actually, it’s six thousands years or the abouts since the creation of Adam. Not the earth. Since the earth itself was created before Adam, and even the sun, you cannot count the “days” before Adam as “days” as they would appear to Adam (and us), a 24 hr period.
UMMMMMMMmmm no.
It STATES it was at the time of DAVID go to the site posted in #13 and read it.
“What he has found so far has impressed many. Two burned olive pits found at the site have been tested for carbon-14 at Oxford University and were found to date from between 1050 and 970 B.C., exactly when most chronologies place David as king. Two more pits are still to be tested.”
the passage of time from Creation Of Adam to Christ’s age.
One can argue "the time from the creation of the sun, until Christ's age" but the "days" of creation before that cannot be determined as to their length, because the sun did not yet exist so neither could the concept of a 24 hr day.
Also it should be noted that the bible uses different wording in reference to those first "days"
Skeptics attempting to invalidate the Bible by attacking the chronology of Genesis demonstrate only an ignorance of the implications of special relativity.
Twenty-four hours can take as long as one likes, depending on one’s frame of reference. Lawyerly assumptions about the meaning of the text demonstrate only a desire to convict the accused at all costs.
Yes. The article makes an indefensible claim that the site is Davidic because current chronology places David at the same time as the olive pit.
There’s nothing at the site to prove the chronology is correct, just a coincidence of dating with the current understanding. There’s not even anything to prove definitively that the site was indeed Hebrew, and not Canaanitic.
In a few days the'll discover another piece of the same pot with the words "made in China" :o) Then we'll hear all about how the first Jews were actually Chinese immigrants, Not that their carbon dating formula is worthless.
That’s ok, I understand your point of view.
So you are calling some of the best Bible scholars ‘skeptics’?
The time since God’s creation Man is different from Gods the time since the creation of the universe and earth.
The Jews count the years from the creation of Adam.
Actually, many Bible Scholars are skeptics, but that wasn’t my main point.
The chronology of the Patriarchs has to be acknowledged as ahistorical in the modern sense of the word; the creation of a distinction between before-man/after-man chronologies doesn’t by itself protect the Bible from its attackers.
Truth protects the bible from it’s attackers.
Does it say, “Holy mackerel, dig the @ss on that woman”? (Sorry...old joke.)
Yes.
The Bible is true, but Genesis’ chronology is not history in the modern sense of the word.
“Also it should be noted that the bible uses different wording in reference to those first “days”.”
Incorrect. The Hebrew word for Day in Genesis 1 was the same word Moses used for day referring to a 24 hour day.
I found a loose translation!
Twas the night before elections
And all through the town
Tempers were flaring
Emotions all up and down!
I, in my bathrobe
With a cat in my lap
Had cut off the TV
Tired of political crap.
When all of a sudden
There arose such a noise
I peered out of my window
Saw Obama and his boys
They had come for my wallet
They wanted my pay
To give to the others
Who had not worked a day!
He snatched up my money
And quick as a wink
Jumped back on his bandwagon
As I gagged from the stink
He then rallied his henchmen
Who were pulling his cart
I could tell they were out
To tear my country apart!
’ On Fannie, on Freddie,
On Biden and Ayers!
On Acorn, On Pelosi’
He screamed at the pairs!
They took off for his cause
And as he flew out of sight
I heard him laugh at the nation
Who wouldn’t stand up and fight!
So I leave you to think
On this one final note-
IF YOU DON’T WANT SOCIALISM
GET OUT AND VOTE!!!!
Kind regards,
Liberty
You are being very negative. You act like all discoveries have been made. Many archeological discoveries have proven the Bible on a number of occasions. Like the city of Ninevah discovery. All the egghead naysayers like you said the city did not exist. They said the same about Jericho as well. Of course the time line might be in question but the Bible is slowly being proven to be historically acurate, particularly regarding places and general history.
Poo pooers like you are gonna keep on denying facts in the Bible. But so far given time it is slowly being proven by archeology. Why don't you actually think and consider that things that happen in the past if there is physical eveidence can take a long time to find or discover.? Why dont you perhaps keep an open mind and let the research be done before making such idiotic statements?
And another thing. The Arabs and Palestinians to this day claim Jews never had any history in palestine. this discovery refutes that ridiculous belief.
The world needs to catch up to the Bible not the other way around.
The Bible has never been falsified, properly understood; but it is important to remember that it is not either a straightforward history or geology text in the modern senses of those words.
I believe that David did rule around 1000 B.C., and that the Temple was dedicated around 970 B.C.
But these discoveries don’t prove either of those things; they just happen to be the closest thing to physical evidence discovered in the last 2000 years that either of those events happened.
The truth of the Bible is not going to be proven by archaeology: for the skeptical no amount of evidence would suffice, and for the faithful none is necessary.
It comes from Archbishop Ussher's works in the mid-17th Century (Annales veteris testamenti, a prima mundi origine deducti and Annalium pars postierior), in which he calculated that Creation occurred on the night preceding October 23, 4004 BC ([proleptic] Julian calendar), or September 21, 4004 BC (Gregorian).
Bedes, Kepler, Newton, and Scaliger (sp?) came up with similar estimates.
Also, there was the belief that the six days of creation represented the life of the earth, and since "[...] with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2 Peter 3:8), it would mean the lifespan of the earth is only 6,000 years. We're a decade past that now. :-)
Nathan Zachary> Actually, it’s six thousands years or the abouts since the creation of Adam. Not the earth. [...]
In his own words, Archbishop Ussher's date was to the first day of Creation, prior to Man. Perhaps you are agreeing with his entire reasoning up to the point of Man's arrival, but then saying he's wrong before that?
Oh, and later scholars refined it to 6 pm...and I’m presuming that’s GMT.
In this respect, science is not very different.
Many scientists have proposed many hypothesis. Many of them were later shown to be wrong. However some cling to outdated understandings anyway (usually non-scientists).
However, in Theology the process is tougher, and progress is slower and more vulnerable to steps backward...unless one has guidance from Somebody truly qualified on the subject. Unless one seeks Him out, their efforts are pretty futile.
thanks george76.
Oldest Possibly Hebrew Inscription Possibly Found
Fox News | October 30, 2008 | AP
Posted on 10/30/2008 12:48:50 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2119979/posts
Whoops, and thanks george76.
‘Oldest Hebrew writing found near J’lem’
Jerusalem Post | 10-30-08
Posted on 10/30/2008 5:07:10 AM PDT by SJackson
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2119502/posts
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