Phelps ties Spitz's with seventh gold

http://www.nbcolympics.com/swimming/news/newsid=220520.html?_source=rss&cid= ^ | 15 Aug 2008 | Steven Nelson

[Blogger]

Phelps ties Spitz's with seventh gold By Steven Nelson Posted Friday, August 15, 2008 6:38 PM ET BEIJING -- Move over Mark Spitz.

Michael Phelps won his seventh gold medal of the Beijing Olympics on Saturday, edging Milorad Cavic by .01 of second in the 100m butterfly.

Spitz won his seven gold medals at the 1972 Munich Games. Phelps will try to beat the record in the 4x100m medley relay Sunday.

"I've always marveled at the fact that in the last four years (since Phelps won six golds in Athens), he has had to live with a lot more expectations and anxiety that I had to deal with," Spitz said.

"I was under the radar circle. Only in swimdom circles did people understand what I was trying to do. And only after four days of an eight-day competition did people from other venues start to understand what was happening at the swim venue in Germany."

While the pre-meet, potential upset talk in the 100m fly centered around world-record holder Ian Crocker, Cailfornia-trained Cavic, who competes for Serbia, surpassed Phelps in the heats as the second-fastest man to swim the event. He nearly spoiled Phelps' chase at history.

Almost.

[A knight without armor]

Never mind. I just read the answer. Thank you anyway.

[A knight without armor]

Awesome is right!

[ThePythonicCow]

The 2008 Olympic Videos are being pulled due to the fact NBC

We absolutely agree on that much, and I posted earlier the error message that results from this:

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by a third party.

The question is whether and to what extend YouTube links also go stale, independent of their being taken down by claims of copyright infringement.

I said all links go stale; you said not. I was extrapolating from my experience in which a few links of interest to me went stale, in situations which had no evidence of copyright infringement takedown.

Almost certainly my extrapolation was wrong, and you are right that not all links so die.

So ... the next question that comes to my inquiring mind ... when and to what extent do some YouTube links go stale, in addition to and separately from the cases such as these NBC Olympic videos which were clearly taken down by copyright infringement claims?

• If that never happens, then I was hallucinating, plain and simple.
• If that happens occassionally, then perhaps I extrapolated from way too small a sample to a false generalization.
• If that happens routinely, then perhaps you've missed seeing a second mechanism (separate from the copyright infringement takedown) by which YouTube links go stale.

There did appear to me to be such examples of YouTube links going stale, with these very NBC Olympic videos, last night, as I reported on this thread, prior to and distinct from those same videos being taken down due for copyright infringement. The videos were still there, by the -exact- same title, but under different links. Given the idiosyncratic phrasing and punctuation of some of those titles, I would guess it was indeed the same video, not some copy uploaded again, but I didn't record the other details, such as who uploaded the video and when, to verify this.

[supercat]

You slow down when you glide. By taking the extra stroke, he kept his speed up and gained him that few hundredths that he needed. Plus, he would have punched the touch pad harder and since they’re touch sensitive, it may have been enough to record first.

If the wall had been 1" closer, Cavic's glide would have scored him a touch sooner than would have an extra stroke. He simply misjudged the his distance to the wall--roughly analogous to a baseball runner who tries to slide home from slightly too far away.

[supercat]

“Omega, the Swiss watch company, referred to a triple backup system of redundant numerical and visual evidence that included electronic contact plates in the pool wall, laser and infrared beams at the start and finish, and digital photography to determine that Phelps was indeed the winner and to summarily overrule a protest by Cavic’s coach..."

I don't particularly fault Cavic's coach for filing a protest. It would not seem outside the realm of possibility that a touch-pad might fail to register a sufficiently light or slight touch; if the rules don't specify a minimum amount of force or area touching the pad, and if the other evidence suggested that Cavic might possibly have touched first (just not with enough force to register), then it might have been reasonable to test the calibration on Phelps' and Cavic's touchpads to ensure that they would respond equally to the same stimuli.

Incidentally, I'm curious whether the actual time difference was 0.0001 or 0.01999, since quantizing to 1/100 adds a +/- 1/100 uncertainty to the timing difference.

Also, one more thing I was curious about: what is the exact rule for a fair start? Is there a minimum delay between the start signal and first motion? If not, is there any reason the start signal couldn't be interlocked with the false-start indicator so that motion before the start would prevent the start signal from sounding?

[metmom]

Races lost to glides far outnumber races lost to an extra stroke. You slow down when you glide.

Gliding in to a finish is a no-no in swimming. Kids are taught that from the very beginning of their competitive swimming and they often ignore it,.... and lose the race.

[supercat]

Gliding in to a finish is a no-no in swimming. Kids are taught that from the very beginning of their competitive swimming and they often ignore it,.... and lose the race.

If one is close enough to the wall that one can stretch to hit the button or will be able to do so within 100ms, I would think stretching would save time. That having been said, the cost of taking an extra stroke when not needed is below the cost of failing to take one when needed. I don't think swimmers can really judge each other's positions effectively (I wonder if it would be useful to include cylindrical convex mirrors on the bottom of each lane to allow swimmers to see what's going on in all the other lanes) but if a swimmer knew another swimmer was about to touch the wall before he could finish his stroke it would not seem reasonable to put his arms immediately forward and hope he's in range; if he is, he wins. If not, he would have lost anyway. Of course, if the other swimmer wouldn't have touched the wall before the stroke was completed, and the lunging swimmer wasn't in range but would have been after completing the stroke, then the lunge would lose the race unnecessarily.

I don't doubt that it's better to train people to keep stroking until they hit the wall, than to train them to try to judge end end, but I would think that expert swimmers could sometimes benefit by the latter strategy.

[supercat]

BTW, totally different subject: one thing I’ve thought might be an interesting event would be a 100m individual timed run, in which the runner could place the starting blocks 3-50 meters before the start line. The runner would be told to start at leisure, and would be scored on the interval between (1) completely clearing the start line and (2) completely clearing the finish line. The contest would thus measure the fastest average speed that could be maintained for 100+ meters, without regard for starting reflexes or initial acceleration. Requiring the runner to completely clear the finish line would avoid any advantage that might be obtained via diving or other such techniques; measuring the time between clearing the start and clearing the finish would make it a true measure of the time to travel 100 meters.

[hyperkitty]

Gliding into the wall in swimming is equivalent to jogging across the line in running.
I began competitive swimming when I was 9 years old and one of the first things I was taught was NOT to glide into the wall at the end of the race. I’ve been in many close races and taking an extra stroke has always benefited me.

[CARDINALRULES]

Does anyone know about what time cent. time the 8th race will be so I can set the vcr. Been way too sick to even watch any of the games let alone hunt down the time. Getting ready to go back home to bed in a while.

[VlPu]

Swimming farse (1) generating medals on demand, in total contradiction with definition of sports, with
- four different styles instead of simply the CITIUS maxim (the fastest, period);
- proliferation of distances that have been proved today to be totally redundant (e.g. 100 and 200 m), with the same people in the podium each time;
All this pushed to the utter limits with
- events combining four styles (medley) ...
- ... and relays where there is no difference to the individual races except the addition of each performance, i.e. no relay that is passed.


Note:
(1) At the Olympics even the swimming farse pales in comparison with the array of medals in other "sports", beginning with those decided not by measurable performances but by point giving judges, from gymnastics to boxing. Note also that one of the side effects of declaring as sport what in fact is not, leads to grotesque best "athletes" (e.g.  children in gymnastics).

[supercat]

Gliding into the wall in swimming is equivalent to jogging across the line in running.

In running events, I believe the athlete's torso is required to reach the finish plane; is that correct? If a person were deemed to "finish" the moment any part of his body touched the plane, a contestant who lunged at the line, arms extended, might be able to shave a fraction of a second from his time provided that he lunged at just the right moment. Lunging too late would minimize the advantage. Lunging too soon would leave him short of the line.

What do you think of Michael Phelps' short stroke just before the end? I would suggest that taking a short stroke is somewhat analogous to gliding; if the wall's right where you expect it to be, such a stroke saves a fraction of a second. If it isn't, such a stroke costs big. In Michael's case, the short stroke won him the Gold.

[ThePythonicCow]

In running events, I believe the athlete's torso is required to reach the finish plane; is that correct?

That was my understanding, when I judged girls high school track. I remember once calling a race in which a flat chested girl lost to a well developed girl, by about an inch. Being as I was a 19 year old male at the time ... yes I still recall it well, almost a half century later now ;).

[murphE]

heh heh heh. I will use that one. = D

[ThePythonicCow]

Aha - I see part of my confusion.

Yes, you're right, I'm wrong, YouTube video links don't routinely expire.

What I am seeing expire is some other hidden magic number that YouTube seems to assign dynamically to each video when it plays that video for a particular user. If you find a video you want to see, open the YouTube page for it, but then wait perhaps an hour before clicking on the Flash starting "f" symbol, or triangular right arrow, it won't play; instead it will display a black video screen with white lettering, stating that that video is no longer available.

[metmom]

How many of the four strokes can you do? What’s your best: sprinting or distance?

[MEG33]

Standing at attention..Here we go again!

[evilrightwingconspirator]

I don't think swimmers can really judge each other's positions effectively

speaking from 7 years of competitive swimming, what you do in the water is really up to you. Personally, I always know where my opponents are in the water, because I choose to. If, for some reason, you don't WANT to know where your opponent is, you can stare incessantly at the black line at the bottom of the pool and close your eyes when you breathe, but as far as I know, there isn't a swimmer who doesn't want to know where their opponents are

[stlnative]

Go USA

[stlnative]

yeah #8