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New species may have relatives in next villlage
The Guardian (UK) ^ | January 13, 2005 | John Vidal

Posted on 01/12/2005 5:52:22 PM PST by aculeus

A growing number of scientists are challenging the sensational discovery last year of a new species of one-metre-tall intelligent humans whose 13,000-year-old bones were said to have been found in an Indonesian cave.

According to some leading anthropologists in Australia, Indonesia and elsewhere, Homo floresiensis is not "one of the most important discoveries of the last 150 years" as was widely reported last October, but a pygmy version of modern Homo sapiens with a not uncommon brain disease.

Now a leading critic of the Homo floresiensis theory is to send researchers to a village near the cave where the bones were excavated to measure an extended family group whose males may be just a few inches taller than the skeleton.

The Guardian has travelled to the village and interviewed three male members of the family, the shortest of whom was 1 metre 25cm (4ft), compared with the estimated 1 metre of the skeleton.

Professor Teuku Jacob of Gadjah Mada University in Yogyakarta said he would compare the villagers' measurements with those of the bones.

"It is quite possible that there are pygmy people living in the area who are related to the people found in the cave."

The dispute over the bones is dividing evolutionists between those who believe modern humans came "out of Africa" and those who say that they evolved in many parts of the world. But it is now getting personal with both sides hurling insults at each other.

Prof Jacob, who has been accused by the Australian scientists who led the excavation of "kidnapping" the bones from Indonesia's centre of archaeology, said the Australian team had "rushed" their work and lacked expertise.

"I have never known anything like this row before," said Professor Alan Thorne of the Australian National University in Canberra. "People are desperate for new species. There's a lot of politics going on."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: archaeology; floresiensis; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; hobbit; homofloresiensis; multiregionalism; neandertal; prehistorichobbit
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"People are desperate for new species. There's a lot of politics going on."
1 posted on 01/12/2005 5:52:22 PM PST by aculeus
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To: aculeus; SunkenCiv

2 posted on 01/12/2005 5:55:18 PM PST by martin_fierro (</pith>)
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To: PatrickHenry; Pharmboy

Ping.


3 posted on 01/12/2005 5:56:55 PM PST by aculeus
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To: aculeus
"A growing number of scientists are challenging the sensational discovery last year of a new species of one-metre-tall intelligent humans..."

I thought it was Daschle until I got to the word "intelligent".

4 posted on 01/12/2005 6:04:28 PM PST by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: aculeus
"People are desperate for new species. There's a lot of politics going on."

Precisely the sort of thing that goes on all the time between "career academics" who spend their entire lives in the "publish or perish" incestuous hellhole that is academia.

Most of them have never held a productive job "out in the real world", and have developed a monstrously inflated sense of self-importance -- to mask a basically worthless existence.

IMHO, a valid 'degree path' should consist of the following:

  1. Bachelor's degree
  2. Two years work in business/industry
  3. Master's degree
  4. Three years work in business/industry
  5. Doctorate.

The only problem is that academia would probably get even worse -- because truly worthwhile people who return to school after working at a productive job are frequently disgusted by what they find when they return to academia.

The world would have far fewer PhDs -- but we would have more Masters and PhDs that I'd be willing to hire!

5 posted on 01/12/2005 6:17:34 PM PST by TXnMA (Attention, ACLU: There is no constitutionally protected right to NOT be offended -- Shove It!)
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"Homo floresiensis is... a pygmy version of modern Homo sapiens with a not uncommon brain disease."

let's take a trip back down memory lane...

"The original pieces of bone and skull, including the now distinctive glowering brow-ridge of Neanderthal Man, were discovered by workers in 1856 in a cave in a quarry in the Neander Valley, near Dusseldorf. The bones were odd, thick and curved, and were originally thought to be those of an old invader, a deformed Cossack who had crawled into the cave to die."

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news107.htm


6 posted on 01/12/2005 6:18:50 PM PST by SunkenCiv (the US population in the year 2100 will exceed a billion, perhaps even three billion.)
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To: martin_fierro

The dude doesn't look like a "species," he just looks like a pygmy without a shave.


7 posted on 01/12/2005 6:20:24 PM PST by madison10
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To: aculeus; martin_fierro; blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks for the ping Martin, and Aculeus for the topic itself.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

8 posted on 01/12/2005 6:20:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (the US population in the year 2100 will exceed a billion, perhaps even three billion.)
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To: aculeus
The interesting thing about the Hobbits isn't their size; it's that they have H. Erectus features. I doubt that the short folks in the "next village" look like H. Erectus.
9 posted on 01/12/2005 6:24:20 PM PST by Redcloak (My New Year's resolution: To make up a new tag line.)
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To: aculeus

Thanks for the ping, but I donno if this is a thread for my list. Lemme wait a while and see if it heats up.


10 posted on 01/12/2005 6:41:22 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: martin_fierro

Yeah...but how many of them can they get in a volkswagen?


11 posted on 01/12/2005 6:53:03 PM PST by Khurkris (That sound you hear coming from over the horizon...thats me laughing.)
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To: aculeus

Milford Wolpoff and Rachel Caspari have long argued that there is only one species, Human. Their works make an interesting counter to the PC out of Africa 90,000 years ago theory. "Race and Human Evolution: A Fatal Attraction" is the book of theirs I have read. It is a particularly thought provoking and non-Racist approach to multilocational (?) evolution. I think they would take the small indonesian fossils in stride and would look at evolution in Africa, where under any current theory, the Human species has existed for the longest period.


12 posted on 01/12/2005 6:53:43 PM PST by JimSEA ( "More Bush, Less Taxes.")
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To: aculeus; SunkenCiv
""I have never known anything like this row before," said Professor Alan Thorne of the Australian National University in Canberra. "People are desperate for new species. There's a lot of politics going on."

Alan Thorpe lead the team that did most of the work on Mungo Man. A very interesting subject.

Alan Thorpe


13 posted on 01/12/2005 6:58:06 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

Where does Mungo Jerry fit on the tree?


14 posted on 01/12/2005 7:06:49 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus
"Where does Mungo Jerry fit on the tree?"

See the chart in post #13. Looks like just under Neanderthal Man.

15 posted on 01/12/2005 7:17:58 PM PST by blam
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To: aculeus

How can you tell the sexual preference of the lad just by looking at skull fragments...... I mean why are all fossils homo ?


16 posted on 01/12/2005 7:25:57 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: aculeus
A growing number of scientists are challenging the sensational discovery last year of a new species of one-metre-tall intelligent humans whose 13,000-year-old bones were said to have been found in an Indonesian cave.

According to some leading anthropologists in Australia, Indonesia and elsewhere, Homo floresiensis is not "one of the most important discoveries of the last 150 years" as was widely reported last October, but a pygmy version of modern Homo sapiens with a not uncommon brain disease.

Now a leading critic of the Homo floresiensis theory is to send researchers to a village near the cave where the bones were excavated to measure an extended family group whose males may be just a few inches taller than the skeleton.

Reminds me of a story about an American anthropologist who flies into Johannesberg for some sort of a conference, walks into a public house for a beer, sits down at the bar, and notices a guy next to him with a head the size of a golf ball. After a few beers and after the guy with the golfball-sized head walked off to throw darts, the American asked the barkeep what the story was and the publican replied something like "Africa is a sort of a dangerous place, mate, and if you don't know how to act, you can get yourself into no end of trouble. For instance, you don't walk up to the witchdoctor's daughter and ask her for a 'little head'....."

17 posted on 01/12/2005 7:48:54 PM PST by judywillow
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To: aculeus

Yeah, like nobody saw this "oops, we need to correct that earth shattering news from last year" headline. If they would worry about work verification rather than work edification they would have a better track record. The overzealousness to "announce anything" is too strong in this community to be bothered with the facts...hmmm, sounds kinda like a democratic mantra.


18 posted on 01/12/2005 8:31:17 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (If Islam is a religion of peace they better fire their PR guy!)
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To: Buffalo Head
Re: New species may have relatives in next villlage
From Buffalo Head | 01/12/2005 8:55:19 PM PST read
"How do you possibly believe that you inane post furthers the cause of Free Republic. In fact, it just shows how immature some of our posters our for the entire world to see. Grow up!"

Pardon me. It does appear that you are unable to grasp the joke here.
Your juvenile message is best displayed to the general board in hopes of shaming you from doing such silly sh*t again.

Quite frankly I do not oversestimate my importance to Free Republic.
Perhaps you should do the same. Have a special day.

19 posted on 01/13/2005 3:26:54 AM PST by Khurkris (That sound you hear coming from over the horizon...thats me laughing.)
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To: TXnMA

ok, i am going to school for pharmacy right now, its a 6 yr program, so should i skip a couple years before grad school?


20 posted on 01/13/2005 6:52:06 AM PST by Docbarleypop (Navy Doc)
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