Posted on 05/28/2017 2:44:16 PM PDT by metmom
Some believe that salvation occurs, not when we confess Jesus as Lord, but when immersed in water. They believe that the dead condition of the church is because of failure to embrace baptismal regeneration. In reality, its because so few actually turn to Jesus; baptism isn’t the answer–genuine repentance is: “Repent, therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out…” (Acts 3:19).
Granted, many of the early church fathers did embrace baptismal regeneration. Even though we cherish some of their teachings, they were fallible…some taught that the Holy Spirit was a created being, the salvation of all (including Satan), infant baptism, purgatory, and so on. Therefore, we must look at what the scriptures say, not the church fathers.
The theme throughout the New Testament is clear: Faith in Christ alone saves. Romans 10:9 states, “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
(Excerpt) Read more at westsidechristianfellowship.org ...
ping
The whole thing is just setting up a silly opposition between the meritorious cause of our salvation (Christ's death and resurrection) and the instrumental cause (our baptism, by which Paul says we have "put on Christ"). There's no opposition; they work together because Christ set things up that way.
Alll that baptism to receive salvation produces is a wet sinner.
Besides, what if a person is on his or her deathbed and cannot be baptized? Or on a jet liner and wants salvation but it crashes before they can get to a baptistery? What if one is in the midst of a desert and no oasis is near? What if a person has a rare medical condition that discourages exposure to large amounts of water?
Baptism for salvation is ridiculous.
Does baptism save?
I’ve got a nasty head cold (BLECH), so I’m just going to post an abbreviated LCMS doctrine on the subject and if anyone wants to discuss I hope I’ll be feeling better after a hard nap or tomorrow.
Pardon me if my words are a little clunky. Trying to think feels like slogging through a swamp full of molasses.
Does Baptism save? If you mean in the sense that Baptism is a work that we do to please God, then no. If Baptism is an act of man, then it has no salvation in it, just as even the most righteous acts of man are filthy rags.
Does Baptism save? If you mean in the sense that Baptism is a gift of God, which delivers grace and faith to the baptized through means of Water and the Word, then yes. Because Baptism seen in this way is an act of God. A gift that the Lord has given the church in order to give assurances of salvation. Just as grace and faith are both gifts of God.
See post 5. If you wanna talk more I hope I’ll be feeling better tomorrow.
You are always cocksure of your errant views/positions, no matter how erroneous they may be.
Perhaps you should step outside your bubble to consider other points of view...
(Note: I’m not arguing in 5 that Baptism is a work that God demands be performed for salvation, so... yeah, just making sure that’s clear.)
Just saying but if you really want to have a discussion about baptism go check out the United Pentecostal Church; their doctrine on salvation through baptism is interesting. It makes for an interesting read. Acts 2:38 is the cornerstone of their doctrine.
Peter is specifically saying that water baptism does NOT save you.
1 Peter 3:18-22For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
There is no meriting our salvation. There is NOTHING we can do to merit it as all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags in God's sight.
Here's is Paul's discourse on justification by faith alone.
Romans 4:1-25 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
It's what the Bible says.
And you aren't cocksure of YOUR beliefs? But you are also sure, I don't doubt, that you think you are right.
Your opinion about the error of my beliefs is duly noted and dismissed.
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:42-43
Besides, what if a person is on his or her deathbed and cannot be baptized?
Believing that the unbaptized go to hell, they initiated infant baptism. Problem solved. Well, except for the fact the sins committed after baptism were deemed much more grave than those committed unbaptized, because the baptized were supposed to be living in a state of grace.
So they put off baptism as long as possible. Problem solved. Well, except for the fact that a prince of the church who fell off his horse and died unbaptized went to hell.
What to do? Well, let’s go back to practicing infant baptism, to guarantee a pleasant afterlife, but devise a means to work off our post-baptismal sins after death but before heaven.
We’ll purge our sins. And that’s why we have purgatory, children. And if that doesn’t work, we’ll make up something else.
Events up until the cross and for a period just following occurred before the dispensation of grace.
Amen. Nice explanation.
Who baptized the thief on the cross next to Jesus? Luke 23:43 "Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
There is a mysterybinvolved in baptism. We are dead to sin and law. We died with Him. We are buried with Him in baptism.
He died for the sins of the whole world. I am dead and can live for another. I am a new creature. The old has passed away. All has become new.
My baptism is my death.
I'm guessing that there may be something lost in the translation. “...today you will be with me in paradise.”
Probably meant more like “Your faith today has saved you and I'll see you in heaven.”
Seeing as Jesus went to hell that day. “Hey - I thought you said this would be paradise!?”
“Well - as a criminal I figured you would be happy to be down here with all of your other friends! You don't really think I'd let you get up into heaven without being baptized do you!!”
Salvation is by the sacrifice of Jesus.
Not by baptism or “Say the sinner’s prayer and accept Jesus into your heart”.
“Say the sinner’s prayer and accept Jesus into your heart”. That is the mantra of the totalitarian evangelicals. No other opinion is allowed.
Which is odd for a sentence that never once appears in the bible.
What must I do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. In the Bible.
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