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To: metmom
Salvation comes because we sincerely desire it and God's grace in giving it. Baptism is merely a demonstration that we have already received that grace.

Alll that baptism to receive salvation produces is a wet sinner.

Besides, what if a person is on his or her deathbed and cannot be baptized? Or on a jet liner and wants salvation but it crashes before they can get to a baptistery? What if one is in the midst of a desert and no oasis is near? What if a person has a rare medical condition that discourages exposure to large amounts of water?

Baptism for salvation is ridiculous.

4 posted on 05/28/2017 2:52:57 PM PDT by Ciaphas Cain (I don't give a damn about your feelings. Try to impress me with your convictions.)
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To: Ciaphas Cain

See post 5. If you wanna talk more I hope I’ll be feeling better tomorrow.


6 posted on 05/28/2017 2:55:34 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Ciaphas Cain

(Note: I’m not arguing in 5 that Baptism is a work that God demands be performed for salvation, so... yeah, just making sure that’s clear.)


8 posted on 05/28/2017 2:56:50 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Ciaphas Cain

Besides, what if a person is on his or her deathbed and cannot be baptized?


This was even a dilemma the earliest princes of the church.

Believing that the unbaptized go to hell, they initiated infant baptism. Problem solved. Well, except for the fact the sins committed after baptism were deemed much more grave than those committed unbaptized, because the baptized were supposed to be living in a state of grace.

So they put off baptism as long as possible. Problem solved. Well, except for the fact that a prince of the church who fell off his horse and died unbaptized went to hell.

What to do? Well, let’s go back to practicing infant baptism, to guarantee a pleasant afterlife, but devise a means to work off our post-baptismal sins after death but before heaven.

We’ll purge our sins. And that’s why we have purgatory, children. And if that doesn’t work, we’ll make up something else.


13 posted on 05/28/2017 3:13:11 PM PDT by sparklite2 (I'm less interested in the rights I have than the liberties I can take.)
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To: Ciaphas Cain
Baptism for salvation is ridiculous.

No it's not, and it's un-Biblical, IMHO, to discuss salvation without baptism as an critical part. I Peter 3:21, and, in addition to that, Christ himself even went through the process of baptism.

If baptism is an outward sign of one's acceptance of Christ, what would be the reason for omitting it?

Baptism meaning immersion, of course.

While I understand that God is the ultimate judge of such things, I see no basis for baptism to be omitted, and ample basis for it to be integrally included whenever possible.

64 posted on 05/28/2017 7:15:35 PM PDT by sargon ("If we were in the midst of a zombie apocalypse, the Left would protest for zombies' rights.")
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