ping
The whole thing is just setting up a silly opposition between the meritorious cause of our salvation (Christ's death and resurrection) and the instrumental cause (our baptism, by which Paul says we have "put on Christ"). There's no opposition; they work together because Christ set things up that way.
Alll that baptism to receive salvation produces is a wet sinner.
Besides, what if a person is on his or her deathbed and cannot be baptized? Or on a jet liner and wants salvation but it crashes before they can get to a baptistery? What if one is in the midst of a desert and no oasis is near? What if a person has a rare medical condition that discourages exposure to large amounts of water?
Baptism for salvation is ridiculous.
Does baptism save?
I’ve got a nasty head cold (BLECH), so I’m just going to post an abbreviated LCMS doctrine on the subject and if anyone wants to discuss I hope I’ll be feeling better after a hard nap or tomorrow.
Pardon me if my words are a little clunky. Trying to think feels like slogging through a swamp full of molasses.
Does Baptism save? If you mean in the sense that Baptism is a work that we do to please God, then no. If Baptism is an act of man, then it has no salvation in it, just as even the most righteous acts of man are filthy rags.
Does Baptism save? If you mean in the sense that Baptism is a gift of God, which delivers grace and faith to the baptized through means of Water and the Word, then yes. Because Baptism seen in this way is an act of God. A gift that the Lord has given the church in order to give assurances of salvation. Just as grace and faith are both gifts of God.
You are always cocksure of your errant views/positions, no matter how erroneous they may be.
Perhaps you should step outside your bubble to consider other points of view...
Just saying but if you really want to have a discussion about baptism go check out the United Pentecostal Church; their doctrine on salvation through baptism is interesting. It makes for an interesting read. Acts 2:38 is the cornerstone of their doctrine.
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:42-43
Who baptized the thief on the cross next to Jesus? Luke 23:43 "Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
There is a mysterybinvolved in baptism. We are dead to sin and law. We died with Him. We are buried with Him in baptism.
He died for the sins of the whole world. I am dead and can live for another. I am a new creature. The old has passed away. All has become new.
My baptism is my death.
Salvation is by the sacrifice of Jesus.
Not by baptism or “Say the sinner’s prayer and accept Jesus into your heart”.
“Say the sinner’s prayer and accept Jesus into your heart”. That is the mantra of the totalitarian evangelicals. No other opinion is allowed.
Which is odd for a sentence that never once appears in the bible.
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
FAITH ALONE! I agree!
In ACTS it was Believe, baptized, saved. But later it was Believe, saved, baptized.
Peter at Pentecost, to the Jews...believe, baptized, holy Spirit filled, saved.
To the Samaritans..Believe, baptized, nothing till the laying on of hands, then Holy Spirit filled, saved.
Peter to Gentiles...Believe, saved, Holy Spirit filled, baptized.
Paul to Gentiles... Believe Saved, Holy Sprit filled, baptized.
After the conversion of Saul (Paul), Peter is sent to Cornelius to preach the word to the first Gentile, with which they might be saved.
As Peter barely opens his mouth the Hold Spirit falls on them showing they were then filled with the Holy Spirit, something that always before happened AFTER baptism.
Then after. Peter asks...”Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized?”
Yet they already had the evidence of salvation with the filling of the Holy Spirit.
Paul keeps making it clear that baptism, in most, but not all, of his letters, is the immersion of the believer into the Body of Christ, not water. He mentions several times that he was “Not sent to baptize but to preach...”
“By GRACE are you saved, through faith. not of works lest any man should boast”
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”
A good study would be the words Nipto, Bapto, Baptizo.
“Baptism saves, Moses with the rebound, pass to David, back to Peter, Jesus with a slap shot — GOAL!!!”
The fact that people argue AGAINST baptism is an indicator of their spiritual condition...and it’s not good. Christ specifically told his followers to do it. His followers did it and taught it. It’s an integral PART of salvation...it’s shows whether your heart is obedient to God or whether you’re going to be one saying “Lord Lord!” and Christ never knows you.
Two very different Baptisms. One saves you by Grace. It is given because you ask and believe. The other is an act or observance of public profession of faith. The first is spiritual Baptism by Jesus Christ which when you believe and call on His name for salvation are Baptized by spirit in His blood and are saved at that very moment. John The Baptist spoke of that Baptism which was of Jesus Christ. The second {public} Baptism is an act of obedience and public profession. The time frames between the Baptisms may vary greatly for some.
Baptism, in the real sense (not by a priest on a baby who has no idea of what’s going on - hence the Catholic rite of Confirmation) is merely a public statement/declaration of one accepting Christ - much like a wedding vow. Accepting Christ is a personal thing and cannot be accomplished for one by the actions of another.
To repent saves. To believe saves. Does to be baptized save? What does Holy Scripture tell us?
In the first act of His public ministry, Jesus was baptized, which was evidently pleasing to the Father.
Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he *permitted Him. After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” Matt 3:13-17 NASB
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In His final words to the disciples before He ascended to heaven, He spoke of baptism.
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Matt 28:17-19 NASB
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:15-16 NASB
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Baptism was an important part of the ministry by the apostles and first disciples.
Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. Acts 2:37-41 NASB
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. Acts 8:12 NASB
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There were several other incidents of baptism in Acts; the eunuch, Paul, Cornelius and his relatives and friends, to name some.
It is for each of us to answer for ourselves whether we feel the need to be baptized, but Holy Scripture shows that Jesus and His apostles and disciples believed it was a good thing to be baptized.