You pray to a butterfly?.............
Posted on 11/14/2012 9:33:31 AM PST by SeekAndFind
The following is an edited transcript of the audio.
Does it matter which Person of the Trinity we pray to? Yes, I think it matters. But being wrong about doesn't mean that it's in the category of damnable sin and maybe not even in the category of sin at all.
The Holy Spirit is sent into the world, according to John 16, to glorify the Son. And he glorifies the Son by leading us to the Son and causing us to see the Son as the ground for our access to the Father. The Son came to die for our sins in order to bring us to God. So the pattern that you find almost uniformly-I say almost uniformly-throughout the New Testament is to pray to the Father in the name of the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit. So we're said to pray "in the Spirit" in Ephesians 6:18. "Pray in the Spirit."
"Pray in the name of Jesus," I think means "on the basis of what Jesus has done to make our access to God possible," namely his blood and righteousness. So when I say, "In Jesus' name" at the end of a prayer, I mean "because Jesus died for me and rose again, covered my sins, and imparted and imputed righteousness to me, I have access to the Father." "Because of him"-that's what "In Jesus' name" means.
I know of no example or encouragement to pray... No, no, no. That's not true. I was going to say, "to pray to the Holy Spirit." But "Come Holy Spirit" is not an evil prayer to the Holy Spirit. "Come Holy Spirit."
But if you got into the habit of praying to the Holy Spirit all the time-"You're my Benefactor. I pray to you"-you would be out of sync with the pattern of the New Testament.
So my bottom line answer-and I've been asked this a lot-is to follow in general the pattern of the Bible, namely, pray to the Father in the name of Jesus by the power of the Spirit, that is, in reliance upon the help of the Spirit.
But, from time to time, "Maranatha! Lord Jesus, come!" is not a bad prayer. And "Holy Spirit, fall upon us and grant us a fresh baptism" is not a bad prayer.
So, in general, pray to the Father; but occasionally, to express their Personhood and your own love for them, telling the Spirit and the Son that you love them and that you would like them to come in fullness is a good thing.
Are you saying, tc, that the Holy Spirit is a creature and not God?
Would you agree with this, hs?
Well I’m not assuming that most people I meet are prophets. If you’re trying to pick a church or spiritual leader, thats a fair thing to want to know. But otherwise, most of my conversations don’t end up at “which God do you pray to”.
No surprise that your irony is unappreciated.
You pray to a butterfly?.............
Either Jesus is God or He is not God.
"Jesus is God" is the Christian belief.
"Jesus is not God" is the belief of Arians (among others).
"The Son truly became Man" is the Christian belief.
"The Son did NOT truly become Man" is the belief of Nestorians (among others).
"The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit are distinct persons" is the Christian belief.
"Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different ways that God interacts with creation" is a the belief of Modalists.
The errors of Arianism, Nestorianism, and Modalism exist in the real world; they are not figments of anyone's imagination.
The quotes are because those that pray to “mary” are in reality praying to “the mother of god” or “the queen of heaven” who are none other than Semiramis/Ishtar.
Jesus was victorious over death, so he is not a dead humam. Aside from Enoch and Elija, no other humans have yet been victorious over death. The “first resurrection” AKA rapture, is when the “dead in Christ” will experience that victory.
No authority at all except Scripture, practical abandonment of the Trinity, the oneupmanship in who appears the be the most monotheistic-looking, deprecation of saints, apostles, angels and even Persons of the Trinity, paranoid distrust of images.
It's a Christianity that has been completely emptied of its history and whose theology is hollowed out to the extremest form of minimalism.
It's simply a matter of switching texts now.
Your reaction is what is absurd.
You speak of ancient confusion as though its victims are immortal. Nestor and his congregation are dead. Those that don’t believe that Christ is God are not a part of the “church,” they are simply the lost.
On the other hand, there are those that do believe in Christ, as God, and redeemer, yet in confusion, and grave error do pray to “Mary.”
I agree with most of what you posted and appreciate your comments but using Thomas to prove the trinity is absurd. Just minutes before Thomas doubted Jesus rose from the dead after having being around when Jesus performed countless miracles. Thomas was clueless. He sees this miracle and calls him God. Ok. Better late than never. That alone does not provide much support for the fine theological details of the trinity. Having that said Thomas is not needed. There are many other passages that deal with the trinity.
"Those" do not exist.
Jesus was victorious over death, so he is not a dead humam
We agree that He is not dead - though He certainly was, briefly. Can we agree that He is a human being?
The “first resurrection” AKA rapture
So you hold to the view that the souls of those who died in Christ remain on earth, then?
One must conclude that their bodies remain on Earth.
Paul stated that they “sleep.” Yet on the other hand, he declared that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so I an inclined to accept that he meant that their spirits are somehow with the Lord.
I agree with most of what you posted and appreciate your comments but using Thomas to prove the trinity is absurd. Just minutes before Thomas doubted Jesus rose from the dead after having being around when Jesus performed countless miracles. Thomas was clueless. He sees this miracle and calls him God. Ok. Better late than never. That alone does not provide much support for the fine theological details of the trinity. Having that said Thomas is not needed. There are many other passages that deal with trinity.
I am not "reacting"; I am stating facts.
Nestorius is dead, Arius is dead. Modern folks continue to commit the errors that they committed. The names for those errors serves both to identify them, and to remind folks that those errors are nothing new.
yet in confusion, and grave error do pray to “Mary.”
Fascinating ... who are those people? I know of many folks who correctly ask the intercession of the Saints in Heaven, as well as the Saints here on Earth. I don't know any folks who do so in 'grave error'.
Sadly, I also know of folks here on this very forum who deny the Divinity of Jesus, and others who deny His Humanity, and still others who deny the real distinction among the Persons of the Blessed Trinity.
Yep. “Sola Scripture” seems to necessarily devolve into elevation of the self to the position of highest authority.
I agree wholeheartedly with that conclusion.
Up is apparently free of the material universe.
Someday we’ll know.
So necromancy is no longer in error?
Where does God’s word make that declaration?
You have no way of knowing whose spirit is with the Lord, and attempting to contact any departed one is forbidden in God’s word.
If you think slandering the Mother of Jesus, puts you in good with Him, you more than the Idiot you portray yourself as on FR. Mother Mary, as an Intercedent to the Lord has no peer. The story of the Marriage at Cana, that describes the situation involving our Lord’s first Miracle. It is made crystal clear that Jesus did not wish to perform the Miracle, he did not want to perform any Miracles at that point in time but because His Mother interceded on behalf of the parents of the bride, Jesus did what he was requested. To claim that those who understand this seminal event in the life of Christ and the relationship between Him and his Mother and what we are to learn from it, are in fact “Worshiping” the Mother of Jesus as a Goddess is fairly typical of the great deceiver and it’s agents of darkness.
I do not slander the mother of Jesus.
Those that consider her to be the same as the pagan titles “mother of god,” and “queen of heaven” do indeed slander her name.
See post #11
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