Posted on 11/14/2012 9:33:31 AM PST by SeekAndFind
The following is an edited transcript of the audio.
Does it matter which Person of the Trinity we pray to? Yes, I think it matters. But being wrong about doesn't mean that it's in the category of damnable sin and maybe not even in the category of sin at all.
The Holy Spirit is sent into the world, according to John 16, to glorify the Son. And he glorifies the Son by leading us to the Son and causing us to see the Son as the ground for our access to the Father. The Son came to die for our sins in order to bring us to God. So the pattern that you find almost uniformly-I say almost uniformly-throughout the New Testament is to pray to the Father in the name of the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit. So we're said to pray "in the Spirit" in Ephesians 6:18. "Pray in the Spirit."
"Pray in the name of Jesus," I think means "on the basis of what Jesus has done to make our access to God possible," namely his blood and righteousness. So when I say, "In Jesus' name" at the end of a prayer, I mean "because Jesus died for me and rose again, covered my sins, and imparted and imputed righteousness to me, I have access to the Father." "Because of him"-that's what "In Jesus' name" means.
I know of no example or encouragement to pray... No, no, no. That's not true. I was going to say, "to pray to the Holy Spirit." But "Come Holy Spirit" is not an evil prayer to the Holy Spirit. "Come Holy Spirit."
But if you got into the habit of praying to the Holy Spirit all the time-"You're my Benefactor. I pray to you"-you would be out of sync with the pattern of the New Testament.
So my bottom line answer-and I've been asked this a lot-is to follow in general the pattern of the Bible, namely, pray to the Father in the name of Jesus by the power of the Spirit, that is, in reliance upon the help of the Spirit.
But, from time to time, "Maranatha! Lord Jesus, come!" is not a bad prayer. And "Holy Spirit, fall upon us and grant us a fresh baptism" is not a bad prayer.
So, in general, pray to the Father; but occasionally, to express their Personhood and your own love for them, telling the Spirit and the Son that you love them and that you would like them to come in fullness is a good thing.
In prayer, the only heresy is praying to dead humans, like “Mary” for example.
Just one agnostics opinion:
I’d venture that the Holy Ghost is less limited in power than when He restricted Himself to the more human (and therefore more limited) familial roles of Father and Son.
Maryolatry is rampant, and grossly ugly.
Yah'shua, the name of the L-rd. His Name Yah'shua(Jesus) gives us hope Do not be mis-led by later syncretic systems. Take comfort today in Psalm 35 verse 1-3
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Contend YHvH
Rejoice -- YHvH has become my salvation.
say unto my soul: 'I am Thy salvation.'
as "YHvH has become my Salvation".
I’m pretty sure that Mithras is not happy, where he is.
Arianism, Nestorianism, and Modalism exist only in the imaginations of deeply lost Creature worshipers (read:pagans).
All aspects of the One. The Father is the source, the thinker. The Son is the person of God, the speaker of the thoughts of God, and the Holy Spirit is the personality of God. The Son is the one we see and audibly hear. The Father is invisible, not seen, and is the creator and reservoir of the thoughts of God before they are spoken by the Son -- the only active agent of God (only begotten Son). All the rest of us are begotten by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is also unseen, but felt. The three are one.
Where God worked through one person at one time, (his own body), He now works through many Sons (and daughters, of course). And Jesus is the Lord of all of us who know -- and believe that he resides now in each of us, for we are flesh of His flesh, and bone of His bone.
People asked what happened to Christ's body?
Look around you, then look in the mirror and begin to recognize who is looking back at you.
>> “People asked what happened to Christ’s body?” <<
.
Christ’s body ascended to be with the Father. His spirit remains with us to comfort us.
Very true. But which way is up?
Would that really be the "only" heresy one could commit while praying?
Your post is fraught with illogical statements of that kind.
I don't know anyone who prays to "dead humans" - though I do know many people who pray to a human who was once dead. His name is Jesus of Nazareth.
Since that same Jesus is also the living God as well as a human being who suffered death, I'm not sure why you believe He lied to His mother, Mary (I assure you, by the way, that she exists - there's no need for scare quotes around her name), about the gift of everlasting life.
It doesn 't.
That's because there aint no "Trinity". Why don't you folk follow the Bible?
Signed.......a Jehovah's Witness.
When we pray, who can actually receive that prayer?
I imagine when someone can figure that out, then they know who they are actually praying to.
This is the heresy of Modalism.
And it goes downhill from there.
Like, what is the description of space? Of a cube?
I could try by saying that space has three aspects. It consists of apparent darkness in three unlimited directions -- up and down, back and forth, and side to side.
A cube could be described as a solid with limited directions, called dimensions -- width, length and heighth. (Of course, that would apply to all matter, but you get the idea of the unity of the 'aspects.' (But only if you wanted to, of course.) ;>
So you are suggesting that an individual apply no elements of discernment when meeting another person who is being met for the first time? Care to elaborate on how that works? And how is what you are suggesting square with numerous other Bible verses that implore Christians to be discerning in how they approach everything including the people they meet every day? May I kindly suggest that you scroll down a few verses in Matthew 7 to verse 15. ‘Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’ Or Hebrews 5:13-14 ‘For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil'. What I was suggesting was simply applying discernment in the way that scripture has suggested to us that it be carried out.'
“Where does it say “Trinity” in the Bible?
It doesn ‘t.
That’s because there aint no “Trinity”. Why don’t you folk follow the Bible?
Signed.......a Jehovah’s Witness. “
The word “trinity” is shorthand for our understanding that there is one God in three persons. No Christian asserts that “trinity” is a word in the Bible.
Neither is “modalism,” “arianism,” “post millenial,” “dispensational,” or many other theological terms. We use them as shorthand, rather than using a sentence’s worth of description of every time.
I could say: “the belief that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there is only one God, an eternal mystery beyond understanding and yet clearly taught in the Bible.” Or, I could say, “the trinity.”
As for Scripture proofs, if you are a JW, you are probably already aware of the many many verses that orthodox Christians utilize to show that not only the Father, but the Son and the Holy Spirit, are God - just a couple here for those interested or conflicted:
“And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20, 26-29)
Please note Thomas addresses Jesus as God, and is praised by Him, not rebuked.
Prophesying of Christ:
“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
As to the Holy Spirit’s Godhead, in Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands people to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. How could the command make sense if the Holy Spirit is just a power or characteristic, rather than a living Being like the Father and Son?
Frequently throughout the Bible the Holy Spirit is referred to as “He,” and given all the attributes of God. Note, for example, Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. Who else could cause the conception of Jesus? God alone, surely.
Yet there is one God. So we are left with this truth: There is one God, in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Mythra? Urethra?
I say Aretha! R-E-S-P-E-C-T!
...sorry...
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