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The Uniqueness of Christianity: 12 Objections Answered
Insight Scoop ^ | November 10, 2012 | Peter Kreeft

Posted on 11/11/2012 12:59:52 PM PST by NYer

Ronald Knox once quipped that “the study of comparative religions is the best way to become comparatively religious.” The reason, as G. K. Chesterton says, is that, according to most “scholars” of comparative religion, “Christianity and Buddhism are very much alike, especially Buddhism.”

But any Christian who does apologetics must think about comparative religions because the most popular of all objections against the claims of Christianity today comes from this field. The objection is not that Christianity is not true but that it is not
the truth; not that it is a false religion but that it is only a religion. The world is a big place, the objector reasons; “different strokes for different folks”. How insufferably narrow-minded to claim that Christianity is the one true religion! God just has to be more open-minded than that.

This is the single most common objection to the Faith today, for “today” worships not God but equality. It fears being right where others are wrong more than it fears being wrong. It worships democracy and resents the fact that God is an absolute monarch. It has changed the meaning of the word honor from being respected because you are superior in some way to being accepted because you are not superior in any way but just like us. The one unanswerable insult, the absolutely worst name you can possibly call a person in today’s society, is “fanatic”, especially “religious fanatic”. If you confess at a fashionable cocktail party that you are plotting to overthrow the government, or that you are a PLO terrorist or a KGB spy, or that you molest porcupines or bite bats’ heads off, you will soon attract a buzzing, fascinated, sympathetic circle of listeners. But if you confess that you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, you will find yourself suddenly alone, with a distinct chill in the air.

Here are twelve of the commonest forms of this objection, the odium of elitism, with answers to each.

1. “All religions are the same, deep down.”

That is simply factually untrue. No one ever makes this claim unless he is (1) abysmally ignorant of what the different religions of the world actually teach or (2) intellectually irresponsible in understanding these teachings in the vaguest and woolliest way or (3) morally irresponsible in being indifferent to them. The objector’s implicit assumption is that the distinctive teachings of the world’s religions are unimportant, that the essential business of religion is not truth but something else: transformation of consciousness or sharing and caring or culture and comfort or something of that sort—not conversion but conversation. Christianity teaches many things no other religion teaches, and some of them directly contradict those others. If Christianity isn’t true, why be a Christian?

By Catholic standards, the religions of the world can be ranked by how much truth they teach.

To collapse these nine levels is like thinking the earth is flat.

2. “But the essence of religion is the same at any rate: all religions agree at least in being religious.

What is this essence of religion anyway? I challenge anyone to define it broadly enough to include Confucianism, Buddhism, and modern Reform Judaism but narrowly enough to exclude Platonism, atheistic Marxism, and Nazism.

The unproved and unprovable assumption of this second objection is that the essence of religion is a kind of lowest common denominator or common factor. Perhaps the common factor is a weak and watery thing rather than an essential thing. Perhaps it does not exist at all. No one has ever produced it.

3. “But if you compare the Sermon on the Mount, Buddha’s Dhammapada, Lao-tzu’s Tao-te-ching, Confucius’ Analects, the Bhagavad Gita, the Proverbs of Solomon, and the Dialogues of Plato, you willfind it:  a real, profound, and strong agreement.”

Yes, but this is ethics, not religion. The objector is assuming that the essence of religion is ethics. It is not. Everyone has an ethic, not everyone has a religion. Tell an atheist that ethics equals religion. He will be rightly insulted, for you would be calling him either religious if he is ethical, or unethical because he is nonreligious. Ethics maybe the first step in religion but it is not the last. As C.S. Lewis says, “The road to the Promised Land runs past Mount Sinai.”

4. “Speaking of mountains reminds me of my favorite analogy. Many roads lead up the single mountain of religion to God at the top. It is provincial, narrow-minded, and blind to deny the validity of other roads than yours.”

The unproved assumption of this very common mountain analogy is that the roads go up, not down; that man makes the roads, not God; that religion is man’s search for God, not God’s search for man. C. S. Lewis says this sounds like “the mouse’s search for the cat”.

Christianity is not a system of man’s search for God but a story of God’s search for man. True religion is not like a cloud of incense wafting up from special spirits into the nostrils of a waiting God, but like a Father’s hand thrust downward to rescue the fallen. Throughout the Bible, man-made religion fails. There is no human way up the mountain, only a divine way down. “No man has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.”

If we made the roads, it would indeed be arrogant to claim that any one road is the only valid one, for all human things are equal, at least in all being human, finite, and mixtures of good and bad. If we made the roads, it would be as stupid to absolutize one of them as to absolutize one art form, one political system, or one way of skinning a cat. But if God made the road, we must find out whether he made many or one. If he made only one, then the shoe is on the other foot: it is humility, not arrogance, to accept this one road from God, and it is arrogance, not humility, to insist that our manmade roads are as good as God’s God-made one.

But which assumption is true? Even if the pluralistic one is true, not all religions are equal, for then one religion is worse and more arrogant than all others, for it centers on one who claimed, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man can come to the Father but by me.”

5. “Still, it fosters religious imperialism to insist that your way is the only way. You’re on a power trip.”

No, we believe it not because we want to, because we are imperialistic, or because we invented it, but because Christ taught it. It isn’t our way, it’s his way, that’s the only way. We’re just being faithful to him and to what he said. The objector’s assumption is that we can make religion whatever we want it to

6. “If the one-way doctrine comes from Christ, not from you, then he must have been arrogant.”

How ironic to think Jesus is arrogant! No sin excited his anger more than the arrogance and bigotry of religious leaders. No man was ever more merciful, meek, loving, and compassionate.

The objector is always assuming the thing to be proved: that Christ is just one among many religious founders, human teachers. But he claimed to be the Way, the Truth, and the Life; if that claim is not true, he is not one among many religious sages but one among many lunatics. If the claim is true, then again he is not one among many religious sages, but the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

7. “Do you want to revive the Inquisition? Don’t you value religious tolerance? Do you object to giving other religions equal rights?”

The Inquisition failed to distinguish the heresy from the heretic and tried to eliminate both by force or fire. The objector makes the same mistake in reverse: he refuses to condemn either. The state has no business defining and condemning heresy, of course, but the believer must do it-if not through the Church, then by himself. For to believe x is to condemn non-x as false. If you don’t believe non-x is false, then you don’t really believe x is true.

8. “I’m surprised at this intolerance. I thought Christianity was the religion of love.”

It is. It is also the religion of truth. The objector is separating two divine attributes. We are not. We are “speaking the truth in love”.

9. “But all God expects of us is sincerity.”

How do you know what God expects of us? Have you listened to God’s revelation? Isn’t it dangerous to assume without question or doubt that God must do exactly what you would do if you were God? Suppose sincerity were not enough; suppose truth was needed too. Is that unthinkable? In every other area of life we need truth. Is sincerity enough for a surgeon? An explorer? Don’t we need accurate road maps of reality?

The objector’s implicit assumption here is that there is no objective truth in religion, only subjective sincerity, so that no one can ever be both sincere and wrong; that the spirit does not have objective roads like the body and the mind, which lead to distinct destinations: the body’s physical roads lead to different cities and the mind’s logical roads lead to different conclusions. True sincerity wants to know the truth.

10. “Are non-Christians all damned then?”

No. Father Feeny was excommunicated by the Catholic Church for teaching that “outside the Church, no salvation” meant outside the visible Church. God does not punish pagans unjustly. He does not punish them for not believing in a Jesus they never heard of, through no fault of their own (invincible ignorance). But God, who is just, punishes them for sinning against the God they do know through nature and conscience (see Rom 1-2). There are no innocent pagans, and there are no innocent Christians either. All have sinned against God and against conscience. All need a Savior. Christ is the Savior.

11. “But surely there’s a little good in the worst of us and a little bad in the best of us. There’s good and bad everywhere, inside the Church and outside.”

True. What follows from that fact? That we need no Savior? That there are many Saviors? That contradictory religions can all be true? That none is true? None of these implied conclusions has the remotest logical connection with the admitted premise.

There is a little good in the worst of us, but there’s also a little bad in the best of us; more, there’s sin, separation from God, in all of us; and the best of us, the saints, are the first to admit it. The universal sin Saint Paul pinpoints in Romans 1:18 is to suppress the truth. We all sin against the truth we know and refuse it when it condemns us or threatens our self-sufficiency or complacency. We all rationalize. Our duty is plain to us—to be totally honest—and none of us does his duty perfectly. We have no excuse of invincible ignorance.

12. “But isn’t God unjust to judge the whole world by Christian standards?”

God judges justly. “All who sinned without [knowing] the [Mosaic] law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law” (Rom 2:12). Even pagans show “that what the law requires is written on their hearts” (Rom 2:15). If we honestly consult our hearts, we will find two truths: that we know what we ought to do and be, and that we fail to do and be that.

Fundamentalists, faithful to the clear one-way teaching of Christ, often conclude from this that pagans, Buddhists, et cetera, cannot be saved. Liberals, who emphasize God’s mercy, cannot bring themselves to believe that the mass of men are doomed to hell, and they ignore, deny, nuance, or water down Christ’s own claims to uniqueness. The Church has found a third way, implied in the New Testament texts. On the one hand, no one can be saved except through Christ. On the other hand, Christ is not only the incarnate Jewish man but also the eternal, preexistent word of God, “which enlightens every man who comes into the world” (Jn 1:9). So Socrates was able to know Christ as word of God, as eternal Truth; and if the fundamental option of his deepest heart was to reach out to him as Truth, in faith and hope and love, however imperfectly known this Christ was to Socrates, Socrates could have been saved by Christ too. We are not saved by knowledge but by faith. Scripture nowhere says how explicit the intellectual content of faith has to be. But it does clearly say who the one Savior is.

The Second Vatican Council took a position on comparative religions that distinguished Catholicism from both Modernist relativism and Fundamentalist exclusivism. It taught that on the one hand there is much deep wisdom and value in other religions and that the Christian should respect them and learn from them. But, on the other hand, the claims of Christ and his Church can never be lessened, compromised, or relativized. We may add to our religious education by studying other religions but never subtract from it.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: christianity; peterkreeft

1 posted on 11/11/2012 12:59:58 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 11/11/2012 1:01:27 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer

Buddhism is nothing like Christianity - it is cultural. Christianity is a personal relationship.


3 posted on 11/11/2012 1:01:53 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: NYer

Religion is man’s attempt to reach God. Christianity is a personal relationship with God. So, in a way, one can say that all religions are more or less equal. Christianity is a whole new ball game!


4 posted on 11/11/2012 1:17:52 PM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: struggle

That’s simply not true. Even a cursory glance of Zen Buddhism, the 4 noble truths and the noble eightfold path noble will tell you that.

Though I will admit that there is corrupt Buddhism. Any Buddhist that worships the Buddha or say an individual such as the Dali Lama, simply doesn’t get it.

“If you meet the Buddha on the road, Kill him”.

Is a simple message that means if you adhere to the Buddha as an icon, you won’t attain enlightenment.


5 posted on 11/11/2012 1:22:26 PM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: Usagi_yo

>>That’s simply not true. Even a cursory glance of Zen Buddhism, the 4 noble truths and the noble eightfold path noble will tell you that.

Even with Zen Buddhism there is no relationship with God and no salvation. Zazen might bring you closer to “enlightenment,” but in that case what is “enlightenment” without God? Furthermore, much of Zazen is reflection on humanity, and not humanities relation to God.

I think that Zazen too is probably the least corrupt of Buddhist sects - Sokka Gakkai being the worst - but it doesn’t hold a candle to Christ and his sacrifice. Even my wife converted from Buddhism to Christianity because there is, as she said, “nothing really spiritual about it.”


6 posted on 11/11/2012 1:30:27 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: struggle
One of life's easier tasks is writing up an appropriate funeral service where there are Buddhists and Christians together. You can start with either side of the aisle in fact.

Sure, there are differences ~ for funerals they may be bridged over ~ although some specific traditions can be quite different.

7 posted on 11/11/2012 1:51:50 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: NYer

**By Catholic standards, the religions of the world can be ranked by how much truth they teach.

Catholicism is first, with Orthodoxy equal except for the one issue of papal authority.**

ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, APOSTOLIC


8 posted on 11/11/2012 1:53:01 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: struggle

Christianity is a literal and competitive religion. It has strict methods, competes for others to participate, and relegates those that do not — that is the corruption of man. It is Christ, his parables, his life and his death we are to contemplate on, not worship the church. I often contemplate the life of Christ as one on the noble eightfold path.

Buddhism doesn’t compete, isn’t literal and doesn’t relegate, but it too gets corrupted by man in that there is too much focus on the Buddha and the Monks. When the focus is supposed to be on the individual and the noble eightfold path. To live in a corrupted world without ourselves being corrupted.

Salvation and Enlightenment are the same to me. Salvation deals with the here and now and this life. Enlightenment deals with complete cycle of lives we live and the final transcendence of our entire being to God’s end.

The only conflict is the corruption of one vs the corruption of the other.


9 posted on 11/11/2012 2:01:06 PM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: NYer

Kreeft. Thought so. Excellent article.


10 posted on 11/11/2012 2:02:29 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge; All
The Uniqueness of Christianity: 12 Objections Answered
The Church – The Bride of Christ
Catholic Identity Once Again
Essays for Lent: The Church
Woe to the Solitary Man – A Brief Meditation on our Need for the Church
Jesus and His Church Are One
How Old Is Your Church?

11 posted on 11/11/2012 2:08:02 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Usagi_yo; NYer

On #4

If all roads lead to Heaven, then we must have a sadistic God who allowed his only begotten Son to be born in a stable, condemned to death, flogged, and crucified as just yet another additional path to eternal salvation. But since the Son and the Father with the Holy Spirit are one and the same God, surely the Life of Christ as taught by one Church does not comport with this “sadistic” assumption. It was a suffering freely endured for the salvation of all humanity with belief in one God and his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith. Everything else is heresy.


12 posted on 11/11/2012 2:15:39 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Usagi_yo; NYer

On #4

If all roads lead to Heaven, then we must have a sadistic God who allowed his only begotten Son to be born in a stable, condemned to death, flogged, and crucified as just yet another additional path to eternal salvation. But since the Son and the Father with the Holy Spirit are one and the same God, surely the Life of Christ as taught by one Church does not comport with this “sadistic” assumption. It was a suffering freely endured for the salvation of all humanity with belief in one God and his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith. Everything else is heresy.


13 posted on 11/11/2012 2:15:51 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Usagi_yo; struggle; Steelfish
History is full of men who have claimed that they came from God, or that they were gods, or that they bore messages from God - Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius, Christ, Lao-tze, and thousands of others, right down to the person who founded a new religion this very day. Each of them has a right to be heard and considered. But as a yardstick external to and outside of whatever is to be measured is needed, so there must be some permanent tests available to all men, all civilizations, and all ages, by which they can decide whether any of these claimants, or all of them, are justified in their claims. These tests are of two kinds: reason and history. Reason, because everyone has it, even those without faith; history, because everyone lives in it and should know something about it.

Reason dictates that if any one of these men actually came from God, the least thing that God could do to support His claim would be to pre-announce His coming. Automobile manufacturers tell their customers when to expect a new model. If God sent anyone from Himself, or if He came Himself with a vitally important message for all men, it would seem reasonable that He would first let men know when His messenger was coming, where He would be born, where He would live, the doctrine He would teach, the enemies He would make, the program He would adopt for the future, and the manner of His death. By the extent to which the messenger conformed with these announcements, one could judge the validity of his claims.

Reason further assures us that if God did not do this, then there would be nothing to prevent any impostor from appearing in history and saying, "I come from God," or "An angel appeared to me in the desert and game me this message." In such cases there would be no objective, historical way of testing the messenger. We would have only his word for it, and of course he could be wrong.

If a visitor came from a foreign country to Washington and said he was a diplomat, the government would ask him for his passport and other documents testifying that he represented a certain government. His papers would have to antedate his coming. If such proofs of identity are asked from delegates of other countries, reason certainly ought to do so with messengers who claim to have come from God. To each claimant reason says, "What record was there before you were born that you were coming?"

With this test one can evaluate the claimants. Socrates had no one to foretell his birth. Buddha had no one to pre-announce him and his message or tell the day when he would sit under the tree. Confucius did not have the name of his mother and his birthplace recorded, nor were they given to men centuries before he arrived so that when he did come, men would know he was a messenger from God. But, with Christ, it was different. Because of the OT prophecies, His coming was not unexpected. There were no predictions about Buddha, Confucius, Lao-tze, Mohammed , or anyone else; but there were predictions about Christ. Others just came and said, "Here I am, believe me". Christ alone stepped out of that line saying, "Search the writings of the Jewish people and the related history of the Babylonians, Persians, and Romans." Even the pagan, Tacitus, speaking for the ancient Romans, says, "People were generally persuaded in the faith of the ancient prophecies, that the East was to prevail, and that from Judea was to come the Master and Ruler of the world." China had the same expectations, as did the Greeks.

The story of every human life begins with birth and ends with death. In the Person of Christ, however, it was His death that was first and His life that was last. It was not so much that His birth cast a shadow on His life and thus led to His death; it was rather that the Cross was first, and cast its shadow back to His birth. His has been the only life in the world that was ever lived backward.

As the flower in the wall tells the poet of nature, and as the atom in the miniature of the solar system, so too, Christ's birth tells the mystery of the cross. He went from the known to the known, from the reason of His coming manifested by His name "Jesus" or "Savior" to the fulfillment of His coming, namely, His death on the cross.

Bishop Fulton Sheen

14 posted on 11/11/2012 2:29:54 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer
"10. “Are non-Christians all damned then?”

No. Father Feeny was excommunicated by the Catholic Church for teaching that “outside the Church, no salvation” meant outside the visible Church. God does not punish pagans unjustly. He does not punish them for not believing in a Jesus they never heard of, through no fault of their own (invincible ignorance)."

May check with John Paul (in his paperback interview). Of course the RCC teaches all outside are lost. And the rest of this comment is pure gibberish, sliding down the slippery slope of a "rewards religion"...which is just like all other religions. Read Rom. 9. God decided to hate Esau and love Jacob, before they were born, before they had done anything good or evil, so that the choice could His. Now, there is the Gospel. Rome has it wrong, again.

15 posted on 11/11/2012 2:36:14 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: muawiyah

>>One of life’s easier tasks is writing up an appropriate funeral service where there are Buddhists and Christians together. You can start with either side of the aisle in fact.

True, but the hard part about Buddhism are the memorial services.


16 posted on 11/11/2012 2:54:08 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: Dutchboy88
Of course the RCC teaches all outside are lost.

The doctrine that "Outside the Church there is no salvation" is one that is constantly misinterpreted by those who won't submit to the Magisterium of the Church. Read more

17 posted on 11/11/2012 2:57:32 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: Usagi_yo

>>Christianity is a literal and competitive religion. It has strict methods, competes for others to participate, and relegates those that do not — that is the corruption of man. It is Christ, his parables, his life and his death we are to contemplate on, not worship the church. I often contemplate the life of Christ as one on the noble eightfold path.

Not true at all. Christianity is a life long devotion, the same as zazen monks. Christianity, in fact, tells us to dwell upon Christ in every way, but the church is his bride. I am Protestant so perhaps I’m a bit different in my beliefs. Church starts with reading the Bible and devoting oneself to Christ.

>>Salvation and Enlightenment are the same to me. Salvation deals with the here and now and this life. Enlightenment deals with complete cycle of lives we live and the final transcendence of our entire being to God’s end.

And therein lies our difference: Hebrews 9:27, 28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


18 posted on 11/11/2012 3:00:33 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: struggle

And every little group has a different cycle ~ cross sect marriages are undoubtedly hard on the family calendar.


19 posted on 11/11/2012 3:01:44 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

>>And every little group has a different cycle ~ cross sect marriages are undoubtedly hard on the family calendar.

You know it. After 5 years living in Japan and marrying into a family of Buddhist statue carvers, I’ve seen it all. The worst though are Soka Gakkai - those people are relentless and creepier than even PL or Tenri.


20 posted on 11/11/2012 3:09:33 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: struggle
But to die once ~ means ~ perhaps you don't get off the Wheel of Life until the Judgment and then you die ~ if God makes you die ~ and you don't come back once you are cast into Outer Darkness.

Or, it means this is all the life you get ~ then you die and are resurrected ~ but what are those souls doing popping up in John's Revelation BEFORE THEIR TIME?

One of the risks of doing too casual a reading of Scriptures is you scarf up a high point like 'die once' and build a massive theological position on that item whether or not it's consistent with all you think it is.

You can do exactly the same thing in Hinduism or Buddhism and come up with equally inconsistent positions on all sorts of other things.

Could be all of these beliefs are more properly mediated through an analysis in light of discoveries in quantum mechanics. Certainly God speaks to us in all those languages.

21 posted on 11/11/2012 3:10:07 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: struggle
Family lanterns ~ the big carved stone jobs ~ ever take a good look at the symbols cut into the non-light segments? We found a reindeer.

These are usually the choice of the carver ~ not the customer ~ but when it's custom made he's referring to a list and matching it up with what he knows of the family.

Recently the DNA researchers found the Sa'ami X-factor gene sequence in the Yakutz Sakha ~ and an archaeologist finally translated their holy books that they couldn't read any more and discovered it's a sort of book of kings traceable back to when they ruled India back in Buddha's time.

This is also the same group that provided the invaders who began taking over the Japanese islands in 560 AD. They formed the ruling class right down to modern times ~ and there's a reason they don't look like the average Japanese ~ 'cause they aren't.

Now, the book of non-Buddhist symbols used for family lanterns ~ ever run into it?

22 posted on 11/11/2012 3:15:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Dutchboy88

“Of course the RCC teaches all outside are lost.”

Hey, Brother Dutchboy - what line is that in the catechism?


23 posted on 11/11/2012 4:47:50 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: NYer

Great read. And Bishop Sheen in The Life of Christ also notes that the birth of Christ struck history with such an impact that it split it into two: BC and AD.


24 posted on 11/11/2012 4:49:55 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: NYer

The way the lead article started out, it was going to be a good read on comparative religions, until I came to this:

“By Catholic standards, the religions of the world can be ranked by how much truth they teach. Catholicism is first...”

I didn’t read any further, just another back handed attempt by Papists pushing their “all you non-Catholic Christians bow down in subservience to the Pope now...and Mary too while you are at it. The RCC is the only true church, blah, blah, blah.” Catholicism ranked first by how much truth it preaches? Truth, my eye.

A FReeper on another thread in the general section, noted that FR seems to be a politically conservative Catholic site. I agreed with him. Maybe not officially so, but it is definitely flooded with Papist pushing threads like this one.

FReepers who are conservative but not Papists wish things were a little more even handed around here.


25 posted on 11/12/2012 1:57:25 AM PST by sasportas
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To: sasportas

hehe

Yes, the FR Religion Forum is mostly Catholic spam bandwidthwise.

But a few things I’ve learned:

No one speaks for the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church takes definitive stands on all sorts of issues, but no one can say exactly what those stands are.

and

Anyone Catholic who disagrees with any particular Catholic FReeper’s assertions is poorly catechized.


26 posted on 11/12/2012 4:10:24 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Dutchboy88
Of course the RCC teaches all outside are lost.

You would be a more effective antagonist if you actually had a clue. "Of course" you know more about Catholicism than Peter Kreeft does. "Of course"! Of course Kreeft is a Catholic -- but you obviously know his religion better than he does -- and a philosophy professor with a long list of publications in both philosophy and apologetics, including works that are published by Protestant houses like IVP -- and you are ... your credentials are what ... exactly?

Your statement, *of course*, is quite false. Read the Catechism, nos. 811 through 865.

27 posted on 11/12/2012 5:54:05 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: jjotto
You've "learned" some real whoppers, then.

Teaching authority in the Church is vested in the Pope and the Bishops teaching in union with him. That means it's *not* vested in any definitive sense in an individual bishop, and still less in an individual priest, etc. Seems easy enough to me.

The Catechism, available online, is an authoritative, albeit not absolutely infallible, statement of Catholic belief. That again seems to be quite straightforward.

28 posted on 11/12/2012 6:00:44 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Usagi_yo; struggle

“If you meet the Buddha on the road, Kill him”

Psalm 2....”Kiss the Son lest you perish before he has gotten just a little angry....”

Revelation “Behold I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will hear my voice, and will open the door, I will come in with him and will sup with him and he with me”

Christian don’t adhere to Christ as an ICON, they adhere to him as branches to a vine! Our very souls depend on that fact. So much for comparisons with Buddhism


29 posted on 11/12/2012 6:15:52 AM PST by mdmathis6 ("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)
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To: Usagi_yo

“Salvation deals with the here and now and this life”
Wrong again!
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2


30 posted on 11/12/2012 6:23:00 AM PST by mdmathis6 ("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)
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To: Campion; JCBreckenridge; NYer
"Your statement, *of course*, is quite false. Read the Catechism, nos. 811 through 865."

Well, then, John Paul got it wrong about only those who actually belong to the RCC being rescued. I suspected a fair amount of what he said was incorrect.

And, certainly, I do not care about the ridiculous catechism and memorizing error-ridden mantras. I will leave that to sheeple of the RCC & Islam. For believers in Christ, we concentrate on the Scriptures and understanding what God has provided through the writers of the NT...something the RCC seems to have overlooked to its peril. Nevertheless, we invite you folks out of the darkness and into His marvelous light...should He permit.

31 posted on 11/12/2012 8:31:03 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

“I do not care about the ridiculous catechism”

Then you should not be saying anything about what the Catholic church teaches.


32 posted on 11/12/2012 8:38:34 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: sasportas

It’s a statement of fact, “BY CATHOLIC STANDARDS”, Kreeft is a Catholic, so he’s going to speak by and for Catholics.


33 posted on 11/12/2012 8:40:37 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge

The title of this thread, and Kreeft’s book, would lead one to think this thread was actually going to be about Christianity in general, I didn’t think I was going to get it thrown in my face how allegedly superior the RCC is. I should have known better though, it goes on here all the time. It gets a little old after a while.


34 posted on 11/12/2012 10:15:43 PM PST by sasportas
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To: sasportas

So you’re going to whine and complain about an excellent article that provides a rationale for choosing Christ over every other religion?


35 posted on 11/13/2012 4:37:21 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Whine and complain, who is it that also likes to use that phrase? Leftists use it all the time when somebody simply states the truth about the oppressive control the main stream media has. I wasn’t whining and complaining, I was simply stating the truth, that’s all.

As to your other point, you tell me the article was about Christ over every other religion. So you say, couldn’t prove it by me, like I said, I never got past the article’s opening back slap against all Christians who are not Papists. Pretty shameless to use such sneaky tactics.


36 posted on 11/13/2012 6:52:22 AM PST by sasportas
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To: sasportas

“you tell me the article was about Christ over every other religion”

Yes, I read the entire article. Kreeft is making the rather provocative argument - starting from a few provable premises, that all the conclusions he draws later on are also true. He is arguing why Christianity is superior to all the other religions simply because of these points.

You should be taking notes not complaining. About half of his material is from Chesterton - which is why the article sounds like Chesterton.

The argument that God would send warning of his son’s arrival is an interesting point - as well as the anticipation by non-Christians that the messiah would appear in the Holy Land.

Did you skip over all these parts? These are excellent, excellent tools. And you’re going to ignore Kreeft because he’s Catholic?

I think you need to examine his presuppositions some more - you aren’t helping your own argument and are actually helping Kreeft’s, btw.


37 posted on 11/13/2012 7:22:06 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge

I don’t need a Catholic article, using the author’s asinine and arrogant notion of the superiority of the Papacy as a basis for his argumentation, reiterating it to his fellow Catholics as if it is a fact, I don’t need his argumentation, I already believed Christ is supreme before I came across this article. I don’t waste my time reading Papist material. In that regard, I have wasted enough time already conversing with you. Have a good day, bye now.


38 posted on 11/13/2012 8:14:52 AM PST by sasportas
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To: JCBreckenridge
"Then you should not be saying anything about what the Catholic church teaches."

If you believe that everything the RCC purports to be the Gospel is in your catechism, then you are the one who should not be saying anything, my FRiend.

39 posted on 11/13/2012 9:27:28 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

I do not believe that the Gospel of the Catholic church is the catechism. The Gospel is the Gospel of the Catholic church.

You’d know this too if you read a catechism.

I suggest you read one if you want others to take your assessment of Catholicism and it’s teachings seriously.


40 posted on 11/13/2012 9:30:07 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: sasportas

So you hope here to inform other Christians about those wily Catholics and their devious ways? Really?


41 posted on 11/13/2012 9:31:50 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge
"I suggest you read one if you want others to take your assessment of Catholicism and it’s teachings seriously."

I would expect only those who are granted the eyes to see and ears to hear to realize that the message of Rome is heretical. The very Book which they errantly claim to have delivered provides for no such additions to the Gospel as sacerdotalism, purgatory, indulgences, mariolatry, genuflecting, absolution, sacraments, pater nosters, confessional booths, papalism, or any other of the quazillion other fantastic myths shoved down the throats of the unsuspecting parishoners. These additions come straight from the traditions of men, by the agency of hell, but managed by God Himself. The deluding influence is at work.

And, it is "...its teachings seriously."

42 posted on 11/13/2012 10:43:04 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

“errantly claim to have delivered”

What, did God inspire Luther to write down His Words?


43 posted on 11/13/2012 10:50:05 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge
"What, did God inspire Luther to write down His Words?"

You are joking, right? Neither Luther nor Rome wrote the Scriptures. Perhaps only Luther is man enough to admit it.

44 posted on 11/13/2012 10:58:31 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

So you deny that St. Peter wrote part of the scriptures?
Or denying that St. Peter is Catholic?


45 posted on 11/13/2012 11:12:53 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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